Season 3 Ep. 9 //"Less Presents, More Presence: Christmas on a Budget"

Bryan: 0:01

What do you remember of your Christmases when you were a child? Is it all the fancy gifts, and you made a list for your Santa parents? And you got everything on that list? Or, do you remember the times that you had a special occasion at Christmas? You had something special happen at Christmas. It was family time. You did carols, if you liked carols. You ate fruitcake, if that was your jam with your family. You had all those memories. What do you remember? There's a cultural pressure right now that we are feeling currently. I was doing some research and this year in 2023 they're expecting a 1. 3 trillion dollar worldwide retail Consumer amount of money being purchased over Christmas. There is a reason for the season, and it isn't the gifts, not that gifts are bad, but we have to look at our family, and today we want to talk about finances and having small children, finances and being married, and what that looks like. Because when you're not having the amount of resources you would love to have, Christmas is something that can be quite daunting.

Natalie: 1:32

Welcome to another episode of Amplified Marriage. I'm Natalie and I'm Brian, wherever you are, whatever you're doing. As you hear us say, always grab a tea, grab a coffee, a snack, get cozy and comfy. We're so glad you're here to have our chat

Bryan: 1:44

today. And just for your listening pleasure, if you happen to miss the last well, two weeks ago, we did an episode kind of wrapped. up the silent strain. We did tension, fear, and a couple others. This last one was all about just the misconceptions about those relationships, misconceptions about tension in marriage. And so if you get a chance, it'd be great if you go back and listen to that.

Natalie: 2:08

Today we're talking about, I don't know what topic that's, I guess, near and dear. To our hearts we've titled this, and perhaps this will be a Christmas series because we're, you know, we've got three episodes before the new year. This is a

Bryan: 2:24

working title. This is not like the final, you know, don't, don't give the title because I don't want people to be like, Oh, that's the, they didn't use that one.

Natalie: 2:30

That's right. But you know, for us, when we had littler kids and I mean, we've got, you know, well, one adult and two teenagers. Back when we, when they were younger, yeah, we just struggled incredibly with finances and especially around Christmas time and, you know, generally we struggled our kids are like, we were poor,

Bryan: 3:01

They think when they can't get Pepsi that

Natalie: 3:03

we're poor. And if we're, you know, defining poverty by how much. Christmas gifts. I mean, you have and how much Christmas, then yeah, we were dirt poor. Wow. And it just, it got us talking about what are some of the struggles with this season coming in and that was just the first thing that popped to my mind was the pressure to provide a Hallmark Christmas movie Christmas for your children. And what does that look like when you physically count? Well,

Bryan: 3:36

I think that. Like, I have a, I have really strong opinions about Christmas and I think partially because we've had to live it with our own kids, but also this attitude that like, even when I said before, the, the way we look at Christmas without with the way that we, that, that nor the culture is telling us you have to do this. You have to have make a list is very commercialized. You have to put, make the gifts that you want. We believe in our house and we do this. It's all about family. It's all about you. We're not going to get the kids know that if they give us a list of 10 or 12 things they really want, they're going to get a couple, they're not getting the whole thing. That's been the way it has been in our house because we don't want our kids to think that well every Christmas they're going to get everything they want because as our kids, you know, anyone that has kids that's listening to this. This is you're gonna realize that as your kids get older their tastes get more expensive If I ask my 18 year old what he wants for Christmas He's telling me some kind of PC part that way that that costs like 400 Yeah, my other son is a musician and if I ask him what he wants for Christmas, it's some kind of 400 MIDI keyboard or plug in thing for his guitar like that it changes and so there's just so heavy undue pressure Unneeded pressure on parents to provide what you said earlier, which is a really good way to put it a hallmark Christmas, a hallmark Christmas that really, ultimately, in my opinion, and I would say just to take the pressure off yourself, in my opinion, it is unnecessary

Natalie: 5:11

and you know, When I was just sharing this with Brian earlier, but back when our kids were little, we didn't have YouTube and Instagram and all these, you know, you tick talk if you're into that, which we're not people sort of like influencing, you know, Some of the videos that have come across my newsfeed have been like look at all the things We're buying our kids for Christmas, and I was like well isn't that kind of fascinating? Because it does one of two things and yes, you know if you have the ability to provide a Miraculous Christmas for your kids all the power to you. Yeah, and this isn't this isn't a

Bryan: 5:52

I yuck your yum Cuz

Natalie: 5:54

you can do that. No that not at all but a lot of people can't provide that for their kids and so yes, they can choose not to watch your video. That is very true. Yeah. So we're speaking from non socialized or like we didn't have the social influences that we have today when our kids were little. So you know, we. And we beat ourselves up and the guilt was just as fierce, and the shame was just as fierce back when we didn't have YouTube and all of these platforms the intensity of the feeling of not being able to provide Christmas as, as what you imagine Christmas is supposed to be. And yes, we know Jesus is the reason for the season, but there's an element of blessing. Be and being a blessing to others and to our children and that we just could not provide

Bryan: 6:49

also just a reality of Of what we're inundated every single day with when it comes to christmas Like you go on to what you said what you go on to instagram you watch any commercials and we don't have cable anywhere But you watch anything anywhere at this time of season Everything is pushing you to buy buy buy and get that perfect gift or get the diamonds for your like here We're talking about the strain When you have little children, there's a strain, even when you're just early married to buy the perfect gift and it has to be expensive. And yes, unless you've had those conversations, that can be a tough conversation to have in general about finances when it comes to Christmas time. Because like, it's interesting because as an adult, when I need something, I go and buy it. Right. And at Christmas time, the things that I want, well now, yeah, now because we have the finances, but there's, there's things that like, if I'm looking, I really need to replace my earbuds. It's not like an end of world thing if I don't get it right now, right? Like it's but as an adult I'm gonna wait until it's feasible and then I'm gonna go out and do it Right, which is generally if it's on sale. Yeah, and and if it's one of those things that like but that's just that's it That's a luxury. That's not a necessity. That's just a luxury exactly when

Natalie: 7:58

our kids were little we went without Oh, yeah. So they did not. And so, you know, painting a picture what that looks like. Our kids needed boots or our kids needed clothes or our kids needed snow suits and winter clothes. We lived in a northern climate, which snowed all the time. It was cold. And so we were duct taping our boots because our kids needed, they, they got before we got. Yeah. And, and it wasn't because, you know, we weren't self caring. No, it was legitimately so that they didn't freeze to death, right? Like,

Bryan: 8:35

yeah, we're in the north. They need to have warm clothing. Well, and then there's times I just remember where we'd eat less or I would go without a meal because we had groceries or two days away or we're

Natalie: 8:43

eating macaroni and cheese and they're eating the last of the chicken and

Bryan: 8:48

rice, right? Like Just like I remember like doubling up on like pairs of socks because one pair had a hole in them, but I needed not to have holes. I put another pair over top and I couldn't wear in the gear. Just I need to be extra warm as you do what you like. Just a little little things that you do. I remember always scavenging laces from other boots to fit the ones that I had.

Natalie: 9:10

Exactly. And. Like you had a job and we still had rent to pay and we still had gas to put in the vehicle and and food to put in the fridge and this is like 16 years ago. It was way cheaper than it is now. And so like all of our rent and our bills and our hydro and our gas and all of that was paid. Which meant there was like no money left over for any extras. So when we're saying, you know, we were, we providing Christmas as far as the commercial side of Christmas and being able to buy our kids presents was really challenging because there wasn't extra money to do that.

Bryan: 9:51

Well, I remember a time when we were early married and even early with kids that you're like, you can't get a coffee today. We have to have every That 2 will be the difference between us being able to pay off a bill and not being able to pay a bill.

Natalie: 10:04

Exactly. Now, having said that and this is just a plugin for finding community. Yeah. At this time of the year, especially because we were plugged into a really great church and we had community. And that wasn't to say that we leached off the community by any stretch of the word. We went about doing what. What we'd always done and we were on a very strict budget. Yeah, and The Lord used that like the community that we were involved to bless us and and they did yeah, and so we never Even when it felt like, oh, we've got our last like 1. 50 in the bank, Lord. Somehow, by his miraculous provision we'd get a gift card for a superstore. We'd get a gift card for Walmart. Or we had a gentleman in our church at the time. That wasn't

Bryan: 10:55

just at Christmas. That was No, like that

Natalie: 10:57

was throughout the year, right? But, you know, we really, I'll speak to me. I really felt the guilt and the pressure to not provide. CHristmas gifts for my kids. And so,

Bryan: 11:13

and I, I, I didn't feel the Christmas gifts so much as just the overall pressure as the breadwinner of the house to be able to look after the house. Right. Right. And to be able to, as long as like our, and it was never like I was carrying that weight without you knowing about it. It's not like that's a surprise to you, but men carry that weight when you're the breadwinner of the home and that's your. And that's what you need to do. And it's not when Natalie's not where Natalie's worked a lot, like even when the kids were young, she always had a part time thing happening, cleaning, blah, blah, blah. But there's just this weight all the time that it's not just Christmas, whereas you're focused on Christmas. I'm thinking, Lord, I need to, I need to pay rent every single month. I need to make sure that they have clothes and shoes and school supplies. School supplies are embarrassingly expensive, right? Like I need, I needed uniforms when the kids were at the traditional school or we need to, they need teeth when the kids get older. Like all of these things that happen that I'm just constantly mulling about, like I want to be able to take them away on a vacation. Yeah, there was no vacation. There was no vacation. And like, We had people pass away in our family and we couldn't even afford unless someone helped us come down, which happened a few times because it was even embarrassing. Right. And, and that's the thing is that it, for us, it was less so for me, but still embarrassing when someone or my mom or my brother in law Jeremy would be like, Hey, I'm dude, I'm, I'm here to help. Like, what do you need? Like, and we had that kind of thing, right? Like it's embarrassing. But there's times that we couldn't do trips and come down and because someone passed away because we just didn't have the finances to be able to take it from Alberta all the way to BC, which in our van back then was still 200, 250 there and back just in fuel because it's a van,

Natalie: 12:53

right? And, you know, it, it seemed as though every time we had, we, we got a little bit ahead, there was some catastrophe where like our van cost 3, 000 to fix, or all of a sudden we needed a new tire, and like we're speaking from experience, this legit happened.

Bryan: 13:09

At one, at one point, I remember me and you just, and this was back when the van was still like relatively new ish, it was only four or five years, just thinking, what's the point of saving money if every time we get ahead, we have to blow it? It was on like what? They're not stupid things like,

Natalie: 13:27

well, things we don't want to have to, you know, repair the car. We'd like for that money to be used for something else. Yeah,

Bryan: 13:35

like we want to. Yeah, we like, let's get all that we need for school or for food. And every time we had any kind of substantial amount of savings, it was always our vehicle for quite a few years. It was our vehicle that has burned us like it was so annoying.

Natalie: 13:46

Yeah, but it was it was hard and it was humiliating to have to at one ask for help and to lay our pride down and I'm speaking to myself, lay my pride down to receive the help as in the food bank. And that was a hard one that I remember.

Bryan: 14:08

That was a hard one to swallow.

Natalie: 14:09

One year specifically when you or someone we knew had signed us up for a food bank because we would not sign ourselves up because it was so embarrassing. And it came time to like get it and I said to Brian, Brian's like, like, should we go? And I'm like, well, you can go. There's no way I'm going. I was just so embarrassed

Bryan: 14:30

and And I, I went cause

Natalie: 14:32

I understood it And you went and I was just, I remember like Oh, I'm getting emotional I just remember feeling so discouraged Because, like, in my mind, you've reached the bottom If, if we're at a food bank And I was like, Lord, like It was just the most humbling Yep I'm so grateful For the food bank, but there was a lot of emotions as you can still tell it, it put an into perspective how one blessed we were because of the generosity of others donating to the food bank so that they could be a blessing to us. And how

Bryan: 15:33

helpful the food bank was to lots of people,

Natalie: 15:35

the food bank, it was, and it wasn't, it wasn't a. No, but your mind plays tricks on you if you are in a position where you are needing that kind of help and it was one of those things where it was like I could, I could hold onto my pride and my children could go hungry or I could let go of the pride and just be like, you know what, this is, this isn't going to be forever and we will be in a position one day to be able to return the, the generosity. Right. So, oh, I say that to say if you find yourself in, in the similar situation, it's not always going to be that way. And I say for the ones who are in a position to be a blessing, what a great time of the year. yOu know, and we're in a position now where we can be that blessing and we can pay it back and we can pay it forward so that other people who might be feeling the weight. At this time of the year, maybe that will just ease it a

Bryan: 16:51

little. Yeah, absolutely. It, I remember after I came back and you saw all the food that they were giving away and that wasn't even the only time there was another time. We'll get to that in a minute, but I remember us talking about it and then subsequent weeks after that, the following week or two and how it was in that moment that we realized that. aLmost this, this, we eat the pride, we push back on it and we're like, we're have to, we're going to have to ask for help and how that in the future made it for us so much. It's still hard to ask for help because you know, we're self sufficient people, we're independent, but it also paved the way for us to be able to look back and be like, Hey, people blessed us immensely and took care of things. I remember one year. I don't know who signed this up for this. I suspected, but they would always deny it to my face. But the one year we get a knock on the door, I got a phone call myself, my work cell phone. And I'm like, hi, this is Brian because I worked sometimes I worked with drug addicts and sometimes I get phone calls at like eight o'clock at night and I get this phone call from someone, Hey, this is something from a camera, the name of the Canadian shoppers, no Canadian wholesale, Canadian wholesale. Every year someone puts a name in. I'd like people put names in multiple names, like probably a hundred names will go into this thing and Shoppers Wholesale will bless one or two families, right? And so I get this phone call saying, Hey, this is Canadian Wholesale. And I thought I had a wrong number. I'm like, and I laughed on the phone. He's like, yeah, this is Brian. He said, no, we don't know that you're coming and said, Hey, well, you redirected them to me. It was like, yeah, no, I think I was like, now, did you, did you sign up for anything? And you're like, no, I was like, okay, what's going on? So literally five minutes later, this truck pulls up. No, no, no. What do you, what do you mean, no, no,

Natalie: 18:34

no, because this was on, we were expecting our daughter on a Tuesday and so they had phoned on like, Oh

Bryan: 18:42

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Natalie: 18:43

pregnancy. Yeah. They had phoned and they said, Hey, it's, you know, we got your name and you, you, congratulations. You won. And myself was like, Oh, scam. It's a

Bryan: 18:52

scam. Scam. That's what I mean. It's like,

Natalie: 18:54

did you sign up for anything? Like, I'm going to tell you where I live. Yeah. Anyways. They're like, they laughed on the phone. They're like, I know it seems hokey pokey, but it's legit. I'm pretty sure they didn't use hokey pokey. And so I was like, whatever, we'll see if you show up. So Monday, the day before our daughter was born. A what? It was a five ton cube

Bryan: 19:13

van, but it was

Natalie: 19:15

big, showed up and it was just like bag and boxes after boxes. They

Bryan: 19:21

outfitted all of our kids with complete snowsuits, gloves, to scarves, jackets. Boots they gave us food to last us like two months. They gave us they gave us gifts the kids gifts of the unborn baby Gifts. Yeah, we had they gave us diapers

Natalie: 19:38

and wipes which you know for those who are new parents that is blessing It's

19:45

costly.

Bryan: 19:46

Right. And so they, they gave us all this stuff and I just, I'm standing in there just in awe. Like what is happening? And Natalie is standing in the kitchen, just kind of like crying. You're crying in the kitchen while you're about to have a baby. So you're like, I'm done with this. I'm uber emotional. I need to have this child out of me now. And it was just an emotional time. And they literally walked in, said, Merry Christmas, be blessed and turn around and walked out. And that was it. Like there was no big fanfare.

Natalie: 20:11

No. And they had wrapped everything. And so they had asked, so the people that we suspect knew our family very well and knew the kids interest. And so we didn't know what. They had because everything was wrapped in Christmas wrap and so again It was kind of like that that motion of like I can provide for my own family Yep Like I don't need a handout and so that there was that initial thought that had come through my mind and I was a little perturbed of, of how it appeared. Oh, it's so silly in hindsight. Yeah. Because going through it.

Bryan: 20:48

Be it's interesting because you, you, we've have now been on the other end of that with church and with friends and family, where we've rallied around people in our church that have really needed help. And we've been on the end where we're going to someone's house and we're bringing them groceries or bringing them money or they're bringing them. We're on that end of it now, and when you're, now that we're there, we're looking at them like, not as, not What you're trying to get to is like how they must think that we're less than we're not we're actually like you just needed a Hand up. Yeah, and we've been there Yeah and so it you have to you have to get to the place where you have to eat your pride and and this is the Thing is that there's an incredible amount of pressure on families at Christmastime and it's not just it's not just marriages Not just because when you're married now, you're going to you're having to buy gifts for family members that you don't know that as well right But I want to say this contrary to the pressure that that culture puts on us. You do not have to buy everything on your kid's Christmas list.

Natalie: 21:51

No. If you can, if you can purchase one thing, then purchase one thing. If you can't purchase anything, um, the thrift stores are great at finding, and we've done it at the thrift store. And

Bryan: 22:04

here's, here's, here's the thing is, is that disappointment never killed anyone. No, I know, I know this is hard for people to hear. And there's something that my pastor and I say all the time is that we have to learn how to do the hard things better. Being disappointed actually is a great lesson in disappointment. We've been disappointed many times in our life, as has probably anyone that's listening to this podcast. You have experienced disappointment. It is hard. It brings on lots of frustration, lots of emotion, lots of things. But. Toys are, hear me when I say this, gifts are just gifts. Toys are just toys that they're really the the they will remember you being together some of the best dates that Natalie and I have ever had even when we've had kids have been the ones we've had a little bit of money and the only thing we could do was go and get one ice or two ice cream cones for two bucks. at, at McDonald's and go for a drive. Exactly. The best, some of the best dates that we've had, the most conversation, the most connection, not the ones where I dropped 200. Like those are good dates. Don't get me wrong. Those are fun that you do once in a while. We do once every three years, but the ones where you're, you're dropping big money, those, you know, what matters is when you and your company that you're with. Yeah. Your family remembers that you made Christmas the best that you possibly could. My kids aren't going to remember the fact that they may remember if I mom a really great gift, but they're going to remember, Hey, dad cared enough about me to do his best at Christmastime with little to make sure that I was looked after.

Natalie: 23:35

Exactly. And you know, what did we do? We handmade

Bryan: 23:38

stuff. Yeah. Well, when you say we, you mean you.

Natalie: 23:42

The kids and I, right. And like, I didn't. I didn't have the money to go to Michael's and I didn't have the money to go to Walmart for Christmas decor. So the kids and I made Christmas decor. And so looking for ways to ease, like a lot of times our boys had kind of a joint gift. Yeah, yeah. Because we couldn't afford to buy them separate ones, but we could afford to buy them one gift that they would, that they would enjoy playing with together, like a Hot Wheels

Bryan: 24:07

or something the hockey thing. Right. The hockey, we played that so

Natalie: 24:10

often. Lots of Christmas baking and like use that time of like, Hey, we might not be able to physically buy and fill a ton of presents underneath the tree, but what can we do? We can create memories with our kids. And even now when we ask our kids, Hey, what do you remember? Like, did you feel the lack? And they're like, no, like it was, you guys always made it fun. And so with what we had, we created a Christmas for our children, whether or not, and I handmade. Gifts as well, right? So like not only crafted, but also handmade. I made the kids sock monkeys. So those were awesome and not creepy. No, they weren't creepy, but something like, what do I have that, that they would really love and they still have their sock monkeys. So it's not about spending a ton of money and not because we couldn't, but what could we do with what we had and make it festive and make it fun. And so we always have done appetizers and the appetizers could be chicken nuggets and fries, like remember dino nuggets. Yes. And

Bryan: 25:19

it was just. But it's, it's going to be the, the atmosphere you create, not the gifts that you give, right? Like the gift, the gifts are a bonus in life. They are. But

Natalie: 25:32

if you're in a position to be able to do that,

Bryan: 25:33

then we, then we bless our kids and we always, and then we bless others. And that's always been the thing. But when, if you can't do that, if you're even you're early married or even you're married and you're just struggling, you got laid off. Like I know, we know of a family right now that got laid off the week before December, and he won't go back to work until April potentially. Right. And so there, there's just, we know that this happens. Yeah, you were laid off. I was laid off for Christmas. No, that sucked. That was really hard. It was horrible. It was horrible. And we are waiting on, this was, this is funny. We were waiting on my EI to come in and then we get an email and tell us, Oh, it was like we've heard in the news. They ran out of money. So they had to wait. And so I ended up having to wait for an extra two and a half weeks for my, my EI to come in. And you're like, Lord, what are we supposed to do here? It

Natalie: 26:19

was, you know, I forgot about that. What a dumb thing. That that was where the government ran out of money. But that was what they had said

Bryan: 26:27

anyways. Maybe that was just like on something else entirely, but I just remember the government ran out of money. It was

Natalie: 26:32

on that. Was it? On the EI. But you know, this is to say, it isn't about the cost of the presents that are under the tree. Yeah. So I really want you to like hear that and to be like well, you know if you're in a position of not wanting That's fantastic. Yeah Right? And, and I would never, you know, harp on someone for being able to provide for their family. We're speaking strictly out of a place of not being able to. And that there's In the way that

Bryan: 27:07

we want to. And we want you to feel like there's other alternative ways to handle the pressure of the season. Yeah, and

Natalie: 27:13

we just we always had food in the house and for them at least for them and you know like with the food hampers and whatever, they, they're really good about giving a turkey or a ham or stuff like that. Right. So we always had like a Christmas meal and stuff and and I did baking and so. And we always do like Christmas lights and stuff like that. So we, we do things that didn't cost money, but still was an experience for the kids. For

Bryan: 27:43

sure. I like, I just, I had this written down here. So to run a reminder of the simplicity and the value of presence over presence, presence with the C and presence with the T, that you being there for your kids as much as you possibly can, you being there for your family, you being there for your wife or you being there for your husband, that's more important than the gifts that you bring. A hundred percent. Absolutely. It, I want to hear, I'm going to put you on the spot. I know you love this. This is your favorite thing. What is a short 10, 15 second, maybe that's too short, encouraging word for parents that are, or for families, for couples, for families with children that are actually experiencing these challenges.

Natalie: 28:25

Reach out for help. Yeah. And if that means needing the assistance of a food bank, church, a church organization, charity. Yeah. Honestly, do it. That's what they're there for. And it's not a reflection of how good of a parent you are, how good or not good of a provider you are. Here that is not a reflection of who you are as a person when you need those resources. That is what they're there for. I am so grateful to have been the recipient of those, even though I had to work through some of the emotional, uh, stuff that I, I felt like it, it. Yeah. Absolutely. And so the stigma, that's the word. There's a stigma in my mind at that time of, you know, if you needed a food bank, then you know, you must not work and you must, right? Like there was just this. Exactly. And I was like, but I just don't want people to think. differently of me because I need a food bank. So there was an emotional. Emotional toll that it took and a processing of that. And I say I am so incredibly grateful for the friends and the family that had reached out and had been a blessing to us over the years. And the food banks and, you know, Canadian Wholesale. And if there are, um, not contests, but like, hey, we are, we're, Looking to bless a family this year and you know of someone take that step and Like, they didn't ask our permission, and we probably would have been mortified had they said, Hey, what are your thoughts on this? We'd have been absolutely not. You don't tell

Bryan: 30:08

anyone that we're even struggling. Don't ask for

Natalie: 30:10

permission and just be that like secret blessing behind

Bryan: 30:15

the scenes. That's, that's really like the bed. The best way to go through the season is with the help of friends and family and reach out

Natalie: 30:25

for help in this climate where everything is so expensive and inflation is through the roof. You know, if we have an extra turkey in the fridge, we are going to bless someone with it because we don't need two turkeys. So look at what you have. What can you be a blessing? Learn more at www. plastics car. com How can you be a blessing and look out for your neighbor?

Bryan: 30:46

Absolutely. So here's what I want all of you listeners to do. I want you to share your story, you can share it with us on any of our social, but I want you to share a little bit of your story about, and we're going to post some things this week, but share the story about tips that you have that actually helped you, maybe how you got through it. Maybe there's a mental health struggle that you went through that you could actually, that would help someone else. And there's a few ways that you can do it always at the end of these episodes. And we can, we always ask, Hey, if you like this, this is what I want you to do. Take that. Answer those questions. If you have something for us, email it to us. You can find us on Instagram or Facebook. You can email it at amplifiedmarriage. gmail. com also on our website at amplifiedmarriage. ca on the bottom right hand corner. There's also a little voicemail and you can actually click on there and actually leave a voicemail through your computer and it'll actually come to us and then we can actually use that and. Potentially feature that on the podcast with a question or a comment something that we can do But this is a really great opportunity. We want to hear from you. We want to hear from you from the way that you've Worked through the budget budget restraints of christmas with through the mental health of christmas The struggle of those things we want to hear from you and all those things that That might be beneficial to others that are listening to this podcast. And again, if you like it This podcast, it means a tremendous amount to us when you share it and you let people know about Amplified Marriage. You can, again, contact us, but also follow us on Instagram and Facebook. And you can meet, reach us through email at AmplifiedMarriage at dot, at gmail. com. And as you have heard us say many times, we believe that your marriage can be reset, refreshed, recharged,

Natalie: 32:26

and restored. Thanks for listening. Talk to you soon.