Season 3 Ep. 7 // "The Silent Strain: The Mental Maze of Mental Conflict"

Bryan: 0:01

You've probably heard this word or this phrase quite a few types. Cognitive dissonance, something that's said in the news, you see in articles and other podcasts. Today, we actually want to talk about it really in its simplest terms, and we're actually going to talk about this more is that your values or your beliefs don't line up with your actions, and we want to talk about how that affects us in our marriages and our relationships. Welcome to another episode of Amplified Marriage. I'm Brian, I'm Natalie. You have heard us say many times, wherever you are grab a coffee, grab a tea, chill out and relax. We're going to be talking about it's a pretty heavy topic, it's not an easy topic, but it's something that is absolutely needed to be talked about today.

Natalie: 1:00

That's right. And if you missed our last episode, we talked about how fear fuels tension. Oh geez, that's a tongue twister, that's a tongue twister. The fear of the unknown. We talked about anxiety and stress specifically for the what if scenarios and going through that, so I highly recommend you check that out. We're kind of in a tension series, I guess you could call it yeah.

Bryan: 1:24

Just, it's been one of those, those ones that as we kind of we, we did some research, we kind of thought back into our own relationship and how fear was such a fuel, a part of it, how even some of the what we're going to be talking about today and the cognitive cognitive that I can say that five times faster cognitive dissonance, how that played a real huge part of our relationship until we learned a few things like how to communicate, how to talk about expectations, how to how to actually deal with conflict, how those things actually left unchecked can grow into something big. And so we do have a definition, and we want to start with this about what it actually is.

Natalie: 2:02

This is a clinical definition.

Bryan: 2:04

I'm going to let you read it, because there's a lot of big words.

Natalie: 2:06

A psychological conflict resulting from simultaneously held incongruous beliefs and attitudes, and the example that psychology today said was as a fawness for smoking and a belief that it is harmful. I know there's a lot of mumble jumble there. We're going to break it down to simpler terms.

Bryan: 2:25

Okay, so here here's what it is, when we break it down to a little bit easier to like. My kind of reading level is this cognitive dissonance is a mental conflict that occurs when your beliefs don't line up with your actions, and the way that is been put is that it's an uncomfortable state of mind when someone myself or you or whoever listening has a contradictory values, attitudes or perspectives about the same thing.

Natalie: 2:51

That's right.

Bryan: 2:52

And so when we talk today, there's going to be a few things that maybe you've heard, even a conversation with other people, and there's a bunch of terms. I'm going to read just a few of them. Like mental conflict is one of them. Yeah, this all means the same thing, it all means aspects of the same thing, but like mental conflict, inner turmoil, psychological tension, belief discrepancy You've heard that one a lot. Yeah, moral dilemma and moral dilemma Woo.

Natalie: 3:19

Let me speak that kind of podcast, yep.

Bryan: 3:22

And like a value conflict and so like. When two people who are man and woman come into a relationship and two people that have opposing ideas, opposing childhoods, opposing circumstances, opposing the way they've grown up, opposing genealogies, different cultures, sometimes different upbringing, like all of those things come from a divorced home versus not divorced home, all of those things can create tension in a relationship which is in a fancy word, and some things that can come up are things like cognitive dissonance. Now we want to break them down and we actually want to equate them to some of the situations we've found ourselves in our own marriage and for your own use.

Natalie: 4:04

And if you think I'm going to skip this one, this isn't really relative to me.

Bryan: 4:07

Like this relevant, relevant, oh Lord, yep that kind of podcast. Hey, it's just, we're just going to go with it Relevant.

Natalie: 4:16

You probably are in this current situation. Yeah, Because even as we were prepping and stuff we're going through, we're like no, they've been there, been there, been there, still there.

Bryan: 4:25

Yeah, we live here. This one's been a tough one. We don't like this one, so the very first one that we want to start with is like it's. We call it a value of value discrepancy. There's a difference, so the way that we kind of laid this out is one. This is a financial version, so say that I'm the spender and Natalie is the saver which is true. Is it, though, or at least it was so, because she's a saver and I'm a spender, our two versions of what to do with our money clash, and that causes us to have a little bit of tension in the relationship.

Natalie: 5:06

That's right, and it's hard, especially when you've not had ample resources, as finances go For this to be a cycle that repeats itself right because when, when there's plenty, it's much easier to be on the same page.

Bryan: 5:30

Yeah, when your bank account is full, man, it's easy to trust God like we're gonna save.

Natalie: 5:34

We're gonna put money over here. We're gonna put money over there when there's when there's, you know, substantial Money to do that. When there's not and this is where we found ourselves is when there wasn't it was like we just kind of shut off, like what we should be doing with our money, we're like forget it, we're just gonna go Out for lunch or whatever. I'm like we shouldn't go out for lunch because we really can't afford. You're like I'm not gonna let and you know, not having any money prevent me from doing the things I want to do. And so we were in this constant.

Bryan: 6:08

Which is stupid, which, even if I think back about it's really dumb.

Natalie: 6:11

Well, it was dumb and we paid. Like you've heard us say in many podcasts, if you have joined us in our webinars, we paid the stupid tax for our Junkie financial Choices that we made. We, we paid a consequence for it.

Bryan: 6:27

Well, and one of the the primary reasons for divorce in North America I still think this stat holds is that it's finances. I would agree and it's a lack of communication. So Nat and I fought Tremendous amounts over the like. I'm not kidding, I wouldn't tell her. And this is again game. This is where we're gonna age yourself. This is. We're so old that if we wanted to know what was in our bank we had to go to the bank machine and then, all of a sudden, telephone banking come on. You could call in and it would tell you this is long before, so I would know what was in there. But Nat would say I would leave the house in the morning to go to work and she's like you can't buy anything today, she's. I was like what do you mean? I can't buy anything, so we don't have enough money. Because she called and we knew what was in there, she knew what the bills were coming out. She's like you can't buy. We have to save her money. We want to have a little bit of extra at the end of the month to be able to do this. That the other thing you can't spend anything in me being like oh, whatever, it's just, it is what it is. I'll just make more dumb me. I would go out and I'd buy $10 lunch back when McDonald's was 10 bucks or seven bucks or where it was and that cost us. Or back when I was a smoker, she'd say you can't go, you can't have pop, you can't have any food, you can't do anything. And I would go buy cigars, yeah, instead of saving the money and this causes. Or I would go to the store and be like I need new shirts. So it's about a shirt, knowing that I have plenty shirts at home that could are still usable, but for whatever reason, that did not sink in, and so that caused a tremendous amount of tension, and so our two values.

Natalie: 7:49

We're different. And there was this, this air of pride, and there was this air of you don't tell me what to do.

Bryan: 7:54

Absolutely, and I'm stubborn that way, like why did you have my wish there was cameras to see what your face?

Natalie: 8:00

does in certain things.

Bryan: 8:05

But I'm stubborn and I don't like to be told what to do. Like as an eight, as a challenger, I'm like, I don't want to be controlled. I also don't need to be in control, which is almost counter.

Natalie: 8:13

Intuitive and see, here's the thing too. We talked about finances when we, before we, got married and we talked about it all. All the way through, like we talked about everything, but but then you're faced with the reality of it and and it was like we shouldn't, but like one, you know, and then one gives in because one doesn't. You know, I didn't want you to be mad, I didn't want, you know, do you feel like I was like lording over you what you know? We're telling you what you couldn't, couldn't do, and controlling you and all of this. And so there was this Tension in our marriage for years Not just the beginning years in regards to you know, we couldn't go on vacations because there was just no extra money to go on vacations.

Bryan: 8:58

Well, one, because is I wasn't working a really high-paying job and we, honestly, we would have done a lot better had not had honestly and not spent as much as I did. Right, there would have been more opportunity, but it's one of those things. We come from a Generate, my parents didn't teach me anything about money, so what are we doing with our kids? We're teaching them about money? Like this is we used to pay their taxes for Amazon with different world. Now you can pay up till 13 years old. You pay for whatever's on there, we'll take care of the taxes, kind of like. We're teaching your kids how to do money a bit better than we do. We never learned that stuff and I had to learn that the hard way, after going into debt, paying the stupid tax for years, like it was only in like 2018 or 1918, 1718 where we finally Got our crap together and we actually paid our debts off and now now we're in a safe Mostly a safe place. I say so in a comfortable place that we're able to take care of our kids Well and live in a really expensive city and we're being blessed. But man, it's a lot of work and budgets are hard and the problem being is a lot of people Consistency well, consistency is hard with the budget, but a lot of people didn't learn how to budget. And then, yes, you talked about money. Like we, when we do pre-marriage counseling, we hammer on this with them because we always know one's gonna be a spender and one is gonna be a.

Natalie: 10:18

Savor always.

Bryan: 10:19

I've never, ever coached. We've never coached a couple or done pre marriage with a couple that ever was one. They were both spenders and they're both savers. There's always one or the other.

Natalie: 10:28

Yeah, so just provided a lot of inner and outer conflict and because you know, even if if we weren't fighting about it like verbally oh, I was thinking it- and there's ten, there's tension right and it was just like. You know. You can see it in the moment it's like oh, this is great, like we're, we're out and everything is fine, except everything is not fine Because the reality of the situation is so waiting for you when you get home. Yeah and we didn't just we did not understand how to make money work for us, but also to get on the same page when it came to budgeting.

Bryan: 11:03

Yeah, and then, even moving on to that, one of the other ways that in marriage, that you you struggle in this area Is that there could be different parenting styles, is that one wants to be a bit more Strict yeah my hand is up and I'm a bit more on the strict side and Natalie, when the kids were young, was a bit more on the the lenient side, but still strict. This is one of those areas where the majority of our, with our children, we've been on the same page for a lot of stuff.

Natalie: 11:35

Yes.

Bryan: 11:36

For most things when it came to the kids. But we sure couldn't get finances together, but we sure raised the kids together.

Natalie: 11:42

No, and again, this is one of the things we talked about, and talking about it is great. It gives you a place, a starting point, it gives you a goal.

Bryan: 11:50

Right.

Natalie: 11:51

Then you're faced with the reality of having children.

Bryan: 11:53

Oh boy.

Natalie: 11:53

And you know I was in my mid-20s when we had our first child and you know I'm grateful I wasn't in my young 20s, like my early 20s.

Bryan: 12:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Natalie: 12:06

Because I think it would have been a different. It would have looked a lot differently.

Bryan: 12:11

Well, even with our first kid we did, and that's the guinea pig, that's what everyone says we would. We let him stay up till 10, 30 or 11. And then eventually one of our friends is like hey, I don't think that's gonna work for you, you need to be more consistent and change how that works. And we did. I remember my sister. She came up and she's like man, why do you put your kids to bed so early? It's like 6.30 now, like we had all three kids and she had no kids. And she used to give me grief, not like in a mean way, but I was just like why do you do that? I'd let my kids stay up till at least eight o'clock. Then she had kids and all of her kids at the age that they're at now or the age of my kids, they all go to bed before eight before seven, sometimes the most, the two youngest.

Natalie: 12:52

And they were young. They went to bed at six.

Bryan: 12:53

And she's like now I see why.

Natalie: 12:56

And here's a thing that just came to me as we were just having a conversation is that not undermining you? We worked really hard not to undermine each other in front of our kids.

Bryan: 13:10

Yeah, that wasn't always successful, but Right of like.

Natalie: 13:14

Well, we had talked about this and then a situation arose and it was like why, in the moment, changed my mind and I think you're being harsh.

Bryan: 13:22

Yeah.

Natalie: 13:23

Right and in front of the kids is not the time to have a conversation.

Bryan: 13:26

No, and we're when they were younger, when we were trying to establish, like right now, if we disagree, we'll just disagree in front of the kids, Unless it's not a serious issue, but they need to see that we're on the same page.

Natalie: 13:43

They see that we have conflict and conflict is not a bad thing.

Bryan: 13:46

No, and we're resolving it.

Natalie: 13:47

Resolved conflict is bad.

Bryan: 13:49

But where you're gonna struggle in parenting is when it comes to that side, and we actually see this when we coach with couples, especially when they have children. Is that one the kids know, the parents, one will give in and one won't yes. And so they actually manipulate both of them to get what they want.

Natalie: 14:10

Huge tension.

Bryan: 14:11

And it's when you're in the middle of having kids all under the age of like 11 or 12 or 13,. That cycle right there is incredibly challenging anyway, without you and your spouse or you and your partner not being in the same, in the same mindset about how we're gonna discipline our kids. If you say no snacks before bed, but the other one is like, yeah, you could have a snack before bed, but they were like I already told them no. And then the kid comes up well, my snack. Well, dad said yes and mom said no. Well, you weren't on the same page. And then you gotta work it out right there. But if that happens over and over and over about every little thing, well, no, pop, yes, yes, no, oh it is, did they get?

Natalie: 14:51

We're taking time bomb for the parent that is wanting the established rules followed. I was like, hey, we talked about this and we agreed that this was how it was going to go, and then it doesn't. It creates undue unnecessary because you talked about this already, like it was communicated. And if there's a change that needs to be made because it's a special occasion or whatever, like a birthday or whatever then talk about that so that parents are on the same page.

Bryan: 15:27

And contradictory popular, what you see over all over Instagram and TikTok and all these things. Now it's okay that your kid is disappointed 100%. And it's okay that you disciplined your child and said, in fact, I'm gonna support dad here. Dad said no snacks before bed, I'm going with dad. We didn't talk about it. Yeah, that's hard on you. That's okay that you're disappointed. You don't need to have a snack before. Do you just had dinner an hour ago? We're gonna go with that. It's okay that you do that with your kids, right, like?

Natalie: 15:54

it's okay, 100%, I think. Learning to cope with disappointment. Is a good thing for the kids Is a good thing and it's a good thing for us as parents to teach our kids and it's not to use it to manipulate and to just be mean and cruel. There are times where it's a no, and it has to be a no and it's okay that they express their disappointment in that, at the end of the day, you are the parent. Yeah.

Bryan: 16:26

Yeah, and yeah, absolutely. One of the next things that actually causes stress and it caused a lot of stress between Natalie and I and a lot of tension was work-life balance. This is a huge one that I didn't really know that I was as much of a workaholic as I was until when I started that trail back when we first started dating, because I had jobs before but I wasn't working like 60 hours a week Like I was there. I didn't realize I was a workaholic or enjoyed working that much, and part of it was because our marriage was terrible and I didn't want to go home. The other part of it is I wanted to provide for you. So again, on one hand I'm like I really don't want to go home because all we're going to do is fight, but on the other hand. I really need to go to work, so I can support her, so I can go home and so we can fight.

Natalie: 17:14

Like it was just a weird, you're at an emotional cross, yeah.

Bryan: 17:17

And so I worked a lot, like I was working five, six, seven times seven. I remember one time when we actually had a baby and I was still at trail. I remember kissing Natalie goodbye on a Monday and saying I'll see you Saturday Essentially kind of thing, because she was in bed before I got home and I was gone before she woke up. So often we would talk on the phone a couple of times and this is one of those things that I didn't know was going to happen and we didn't handle very well. Also, not wanting to go home and you not wanting to be with me because we were fighting all the time made it easier for me to go, but we never communicated about it, we never talked about it, we never and then when we did, it was just flaccid in the pan, mad Well why are? you gone all the time. Well, because we don't have as much money and I'm struggling like I want to work and Well, it was always under the guise of financially providing Right. And part of it was thinking back. I mean, part of it was because I wanted to make sure I was supporting you Truthfully. But there's the other part where we were just arguing and fighting all the time and it was hard to be at home yeah, but you get in this cognitive dissonance when I'm craving quality time with you.

Natalie: 18:23

Yeah, and I understand that you have to work. Yeah, but this is excessive.

Bryan: 18:28

Yeah Well, and it's not. It wasn't just normal 40, 50 hours a week.

Natalie: 18:31

It was like, no and like for those. If you might be out there and you were like married to a workaholic or you are dating a workaholic, it's not to say that that can't change.

Bryan: 18:44

No, it's because it sure can.

Natalie: 18:45

You changed and you know where. We had a newborn baby and a colicky newborn baby. So if anyone of you has had a colicky baby, it's exhausting in all of like postpartum everything. Everything is just exhausting, and so to be to feel like I am on my own, yeah.

Bryan: 19:10

Yeah.

Natalie: 19:10

With this and you're gone and under the impression that you're financially providing, which you were, but I'm also not choosing a relationship. You're not. You're not prioritizing, yeah Right. And so there's this tug of war that happens of like, yes, I know you need to provide, but then there's still the balance of being at home.

Bryan: 19:30

I will. I will say this is that I think what we've learned over the last few years and this is part of a book I read I wish I could, it was, I think it was an atomic habits by James Clear, but said the, and he was talking all about discipline and I don't know. He was doing a podcast with someone. He said the work life balance is a myth. He said, realistically, if you look at your life, I spend more hours per week with the people I work with, because eight hours that's what our culture does. We work for eight hours, nine hours, 10 hours a day. I spend more time with my my end. So if I was to try and balance that out, especially when they're young and the kids go to bed seven, I have to be able to work at every day at 12 to spend the equal amount of time and and. But where we get into trouble is when we choose work and that's our number one priority over our family, and I can't stress this enough only because I've been through this is that there is no job. Maybe there's jobs, but there can't be a normal person job like I'm a normal person, like I'm not a diplomat, I'm not a politician. I don't know what their hours are like, but I'm just saying that if you're working on, there's no job out there that's worth sacrificing your family for. I would say that even for politicians and diplomats and family like oh, but I'm saying that there's no job out there that's worth working so much that you don't know your wife, you don't know your children. I remember I cried at a pride at with my boss I don't think I ever told you this. I was with Chris, he was my boss in in Red Deer and Rainan had been born and I had gone back to work and I hadn't seen him for like two and a half weeks because essentially I would come home Uh, I would, you'd be already in bed, he'd are be in bed. It was like nine or 10 and I'd leave the next morning at like six, 30 or seven to go to work. And I remember sitting in his office and if you don't give me time off and I'm crying I was crying in his office If you don't give me time off, I'll quit right here. And they said I need to have some time off so I can go see my son. I haven't seen my son and and like they was like at that point, like 17 days, like it may be little bits and pieces and so there's no job that's worth sacrificing your family, but I can say that now, however, we dealt with that and hours got better and then I ended up working as a job, as a pastor, and I remember you telling me uh, I don't know, it was like year three you love your job. Then you love being a pastor of the church more than you love your family, and that just about gutted me. But it also forced me to make some drastic changes in how we approached our family.

Natalie: 21:54

Yep.

Bryan: 21:55

And those things. I was working not because my pastor was saying I need you to pull the hours into it Not at all.

Natalie: 22:00

As a matter of fact, he he may.

Bryan: 22:02

he was like you have to connive around my back with my wife to get me to take time off of making sure that you take your time off, but you know it's.

Natalie: 22:10

it's a type of when you're in ministry and anyone who might be in ministry knows that I mean you're pulled in 47 different directions and people don't understand that. You're like, well, you should be at my back and call when I'm having an emergency and and there are times where, yes, it's like call back in business hours- right. Because we do have a family at the end of the day that we go to and they are the priority.

Bryan: 22:38

I I want to write a book for young leaders one day, like in the next few years probably, I really I've thought about this a lot. One of my chapters is going to be all about other people. Don't know what your time is like, that's right. And they just assume that everything you do is for them. So the work life balance is a really tough one. The next one is there's a couple that I follow on Instagram that does little skits. She's an introvert or an extrovert and he's an introvert. I'm an extrovert, I'm an introvert and Natalie's an introvert and we have learned now, after this many years together, what works and what doesn't. When she says she's done, it's not because she's trying to get out of anything, it's because she's finished and she's hit her limit. And she'll tell me, usually before I said uh, brian, this will probably be the last one that I can do this week, like I'm tired, I'm done, I'm finished. And then sometimes she plans things and does it to herself.

Natalie: 23:27

That's right, and then I regret it.

Bryan: 23:28

And then I. And then there's sometimes I'm also I'm. I'm kind of a in between, an extrovert, introvert. I think in my older age I'm more of an ambivert, where I can be either or and that way. But this can be really hard on couples that want to have a social life, one that, one that does, and one that's just like chilling out at home.

Natalie: 23:46

That's right, natalie's a home, yeah.

Bryan: 23:48

So me and my one son, ezra, my middle son, we and my daughter actually embers, we're all like let's go be where there's people. The bigger the crowd, the better. The more energy the better. And me, well, my oldest son and my wife are exhausted being with the three of us because we're having the time of her life when there's like a hundred people around.

Natalie: 24:04

Exactly, and you know there's. There's a thing about communicating your, your uh capacity.

Bryan: 24:11

Well, right, and these things will cause a lot of tension, especially when you're you're you're young married, then you have your young with young children. And if you don't realize that when you have a child, your life changes, yes, it does. And when, when you're young and you're married man. You could do so much stuff together. You can just leave the house, you can go to whatever restaurant you want, you could take off for a weekend. It's all good when you have kids, that makes a little bit more challenging. And the one that needs to be around people, maybe like starving to be with people. And then the one who, like at the beginning of COVID Natalie, was like this is the greatest thing ever I get to stay at home, I love this. And I was like I'm dying. Oh, it was.

Natalie: 24:51

On on a lot. On an emotional level it was just wonderful. A forced relaxation, relaxing. Well, it wasn't relaxing, but it was like forced downtime. Yeah, right it was forced downtime, but then you realize because you're you're an adult and you're healthy.

Bryan: 25:08

You're like we can't do this forever. No, no, this. This gets rid of old quick.

Natalie: 25:13

And so so that's the the social life.

Bryan: 25:16

You just got to be careful how you two communicate with each other about that. Like every one of these things that we'll get to that at the end. I want to talk about that at the end, but here's the the very the last time that we are. The second last one we want to talk about is behavioral changes. This one's interesting. You want to kind of break. Well, I just when we were talking about this, just thought of you know.

Natalie: 25:34

Jacqueline Hyde was the visual that came to my mind in regards to behavioral changes. So we had an expectation. Um, I had an expectation in our dating years and in our marriage based on based on evidence and facts that you and I had actually talked about goals, plans that we had made for how this was going to roll out. And then the reality of marriage hit and it was nothing like we had set out. It was just like that didn't matter anymore. And it was. You know I, you pulled a Jekyll and Hyde. All right, we've got to go. You know I, you pulled a Jekyll and Hyde. We talked about this before, and it and it was um. You were like a chameleon. I felt really betrayed and I felt, um, like the rug had been ripped out from under me and we did not align Our reality, didn't align with with the expectation.

Bryan: 26:28

That's true.

Natalie: 26:30

Which can cause a lot of unease, Can cause a lot of doubt, Can cause a lot of okay. Well, now I'm. What did I do? Like I made the biggest mistake.

Bryan: 26:39

That's really what it felt like. Well and like, even even to that effect too, like I don't know, it's still like this. Now, when young couples get married, everyone and their dog is telling them like, oh, lower your expectations in this area, and oftentimes, especially when it's couples that we know that, of course, I've never had sex before. It's always about while living together. That's going to be new bathroom experiences, showers, um, and sex. Right, like, sex is always the big one, yeah.

Natalie: 27:06

What happens, though, if there is like a health crisis?

Bryan: 27:09

Yeah.

Natalie: 27:09

And something happens.

Bryan: 27:10

Yeah.

Natalie: 27:11

You, just you can. You can plan on paper, but then you know your expectation of we're we're going to grow old together, we're going to be healthy and we're going to be doing all of these things and then, and then boom out of the blue which we know a few couples Health crisis happens right, and the expectation then you're. You're at that crossroads.

Bryan: 27:28

And I will as a point of encouragement to any men that are listening to this I was an extreme case. I literally like when she says Jack along hide, she's not kidding. Before we were married, I was like the, the model boyfriend, model fiance.

Natalie: 27:42

With all the dumb cliches too. Yeah, I sing her songs and write me poetry.

Bryan: 27:48

And then I was not prepared for marriage and it hit me like a ton of bricks and I turned into to hide real quick. Wait, no, jekyll, the other guy, the bad one, jekyll I don't know Whichever, but I just turned. I turned into something else that was not at all like I had I had expected, but also how she had expected. But I will tell you in all of that, as a point of encouragement, that you can come out of that. You can change, life can change, you can get better, you can have a good relationship, you can have a good marriage. It just takes a lot of work and a lot of intentionality.

Natalie: 28:21

Well, and a lot of self reflection, like you can't get help if you don't think there's a problem.

Bryan: 28:28

Yeah.

Natalie: 28:28

Right, and so if you're in a situation where you're you know you or your partners is suffering from like severe behavioral changes, reach out, get counseling.

Bryan: 28:40

Yeah, get counseling, get help.

Natalie: 28:42

I wish that we would have done that way earlier than we did. We are huge advocates for what is that Like? Extra help.

Bryan: 28:53

Yeah, counseling I just thank you. Wow, you're. The words are not your strong suit today.

Natalie: 28:59

Right, um, because they will help you navigate the new dynamics.

Bryan: 29:02

Right the thing is to is that you, what happens sometimes if a couple is struggling in their relationship, especially over the course of years, and they don't really communicate. And then one day, you, you hear that you've seen it in movies, oh, they've changed. Yeah Well, if you were walking with them, you would have. You would have seen that change and worked with that change with them. And you would have grown together, the way that you look at someone else across the table when you're eating dinner and saying, man, you've changed, I don't know you anymore. It's because you weren't trying to communicate your way through it, or you just didn't know how, right, what. And so, all of a sudden, there can be, you can genuinely have different values and different. The way you view things is different the way all because you didn't communicate, you didn't come, you didn't talk about your expectations and you literally just lived in the same house for years and years, still being friends and still doing things and still having a maybe a good relationship, but you didn't know what was going on, so much so that you, you looked across one day. The kids are gone, like we, we didn't talk about this all, and Natalie can't talk about our kids leaving without getting a little teary-eyed, and but we're also thinking, like we hear this all the time they, they, the kids, leave, and now the husband and wife are like, well, who are you? Yeah, and we have. We really don't want that for each other. So that I'm looking forward to, I'm looking forward to a strong word. I don't want them to be gone, because I love my kids and I want to provide them every opportunity to succeed in the town that we're in, but when they're gone, I want to be able to be like Nat hey, let's just pack up and go away for two days and and be like let's be spontaneous, because we know each other well enough. I'm like I know where I'm going to take her and not look at her and be like, well, I'm going to hang out with the boys because I don't know who you are anymore, Right.

Natalie: 30:46

Exactly.

Bryan: 30:47

And so you're. You will change, but if you're working together in the relationship, you will change together and grow with each other and build with each other and and mature together, and that's exactly what you want.

Natalie: 31:00

And that was one of the things that we've talked about with our kids of like. We want to set you up to be, like I don't know model citizens, functioning citizens, contributing citizens, all the while cultivating our marriage right, because that is, first and foremost.

Bryan: 31:22

Right, Absolutely. And the last thing in before we we close this down is just sometimes affection or emotional support or and you know what it's okay to say to your spouse spouse, I got 50% of me today.

Natalie: 31:40

That's fair, right, and it's you know? um, yes, the effort you're putting in is a hundred percent and a hundred percent If you want to make it work over the the long haul. But there's times where you know work was awful, or you know you've got some bad news or whatnot, and you're just not at your optimal. And it's okay to not be at your optimal. Yeah, I think that's where we shoulder each other. Um, where, where, if I'm generally speaking, it's worked out this way for us. Where, if I'm not a hundred percent and I'm like 30%, your 70% right, and so we balance each other out.

Bryan: 32:21

Yeah, absolutely, and it's a back and forth and and I think the expectation that someone else is giving 100, like they're at a hundred percent all the time, is unrealistic, especially when you you have children and you both are working and you both have maybe higher stress jobs or you're like finances may not be great or relationships with your in-laws may not be like. Whatever your situation may be, it's. It's unrealistic for me to assume that every single day, natalie's going to be at a hundred percent.

Natalie: 32:50

Right.

Bryan: 32:50

Right, and and if I have that expectation on her and she didn't know about it and now I'm disappointed because I didn't communicate that with her and she couldn't even say hey, well, that's not, how can I do that?

Natalie: 33:00

Right and we're mismatched because you have an expectation of of what your needs are and how I'm able to provide.

Bryan: 33:07

Yeah, yeah.

Natalie: 33:08

And then I can't offer that, or I'm I like, I just I don't have the capacity to do that, or or I'm upset about something and I'm unwilling to do that. It just creates again another tug of war of feelings and emotions.

Bryan: 33:24

We're just ripping each other back and forth, right.

Natalie: 33:26

Like you know, you might want to or I might want to, crave, you know, deep conversation and you were like I just can't right now.

Bryan: 33:36

I got nothing. And there's been times where Natalie is talking to me about the day and I and I just had come home. I'm sitting on the couch with the kids, they're all talking to me and I said, Whoa, everyone, I just need 15 minutes, Give me, give me some time. Or sometimes my, my way is not nearly that gentle and I'm just like everyone. Just stop talking. I'm going to go to the bedroom and just lay down because I'm tired.

Natalie: 34:00

Yeah.

Bryan: 34:00

Give me 20 minutes. And I barked instead of just said, hey, I just need a break, like I just need a few minutes just to recharge and I'm going to come out. We're going to do this.

Natalie: 34:08

Right and and again right, Like there's grace in the moment, but it boils down to like communicating. Hey, it's not that I don't want to have meaningful conversation or whatever, but I, you know, I just had to let someone go today or whatever, or someone died, or there could be a multitude, you know, fill in the blanks of reasons why, which is drains on our emotional ability and and yes, we don't want to stay in that place, but there, there, there has to be communication of like a recharge time.

Bryan: 34:40

Right and and I like how we've titled each one of these things is the silent strain. There's a silent strain that comes and I think, even after we've talked about our own through each one of these things. They're the one thing that we didn't do. And then the one thing that we encourage whenever we coach couples, whenever we're doing pre marriage with couples, the one thing that we encourage to do is to communicate clearly, communicate what the expectation is, if it can be met, meet the expectation if possible, and now that it's been voiced, you can actually work through those things together.

Natalie: 35:12

That's right. It's not just like voicing at once. This is like in all of these things we talked about tonight, these are like ongoing conversations because as you grow together and as, as your seasons changing, your kids grow up. Or you have kids or or maybe you don't have kids and you get for babies instead. Right, there's always going to be opportunity for you to communicate, and it's not just what we communicated once and that should be good.

Bryan: 35:41

No, it's like it's like I said I love you once when we got married. You know that I feel that way.

Natalie: 35:45

Well, no, if it changes, I'll tell you Silliness, that's right.

Bryan: 35:49

And I would say this with with all of our team. I said leaders are repeaters. If I want to lead my house, nally one, and I want to lead our children, we're going to repeat hey, I love you, this is a discipline in our house. This is a good, this is a bad. We're going to repeat it over and over and even to each other. We're going to repeat certain things because we want them us to, and not in a nagging way. That's a whole nother podcast. Let's not talk about that. But I think the just as we close I know this is a bit of a longer one- it had to be, though, because it's a big topic. And this is even just. I feel like we just scratching the surface of some of the stories that we heard from from people and some of the things that we've been through in our own relationship, even even what I just said a few minutes ago the if you can communicate with your spouse, if you can take something that has become your normal. That should have been the exception, right, and you are actually experiencing like your actions tension and there's tension in the relationship and you believe one thing and she believes another, or he believes another. However, you and then you're you have to work towards it, and then your actions are saying something different. Hey, like you, you can communicate and you can work your way through these types of this type of tension, this mental strain the way that we said that they are. You can work through this and actually be successful Like you can be like.

Natalie: 37:05

what do you call a true hold, please?

Bryan: 37:08

Let's talk about this, plant that in the ground and just be like, hey, we're gonna do something a little bit different, right?

Natalie: 37:14

That's right.

Bryan: 37:15

You with me. Oh yeah, you still love me.

Natalie: 37:18

Yes, yeah.

Bryan: 37:20

Notice that she paused there. Everyone, if you have really been enjoying a while the last few episodes, but just this podcast and journal, it really, really does mean a lot to us. When you won, you can go onto our website, you can leave a review. You can also go onto the website and you can follow us on Instagram, you can follow us on Facebook and, if you have and share it with everyone that you know, if you have a topic or question or something that you like us discuss, please just email us at amplifiedmarriagecom. We love hearing from you and, as you have heard us say many times before, we believe that marriage can be reset, refreshed, be charged and restored. Thanks so much for listening Talk to you soon.