May 10, 2021

Season 2 Ep.14 // Defensiveness and Stonewalling (Pick Your Poison Series)

Season 2 Ep.14 // Defensiveness and Stonewalling (Pick Your Poison Series)

We are in the second part of our series called "Pick Your Poison". Some behaviours in a marriage have a destination towards divorce. Take a listen as we talk about the poison but also give the antidote. Thanks for listening. We appreciate you. If you want us to discuss something for a podcast. Let us know at amplifiedmarriage@gmail.com SUBSCRIBE LIKE & SHARE We want to hear from you. Stay connected to Amplified Marriage Website Instagram Support the show (https://www.buymeac...

Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Overcast podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
iHeartRadio podcast player badge
PocketCasts podcast player badge
TuneIn podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Overcast podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon iHeartRadio podcast player icon PocketCasts podcast player icon TuneIn podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon
Season 2 PICK YOUR POISON

We are in the second part of our series called "Pick Your Poison".

Some behaviours in a marriage have a destination towards divorce.

 Take a listen as we talk about the poison but also give the antidote.

Thanks for listening. We appreciate you.

If you want us to discuss something for a podcast.

Let us know at amplifiedmarriage@gmail.com

SUBSCRIBE

LIKE & SHARE

We want to hear from you. Stay connected to Amplified Marriage
Website
Instagram

Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/Amplified)

Send us a text

Support the show

SUBSCRIBE

LIKE & SHARE

We want to hear from you. Stay connected to Amplified Marriage
Website
Instagram
Facebook

We are strong believers that marriages can be reset, refreshed, recharged, and restored. 

WEBVTT

00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:23.629
Welcome to season two, episode 14, the second part of our pick your poison series today, we are talking about defensiveness and stonewalling.

00:00:56.850 --> 00:00:59.219
Welcome to another episode of amplified marriage.

00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:10.140
I'm Natalie and I'm Brian, wherever you are, whatever you're doing, you hear us say this every single podcast, gravity, grab a snack and a coffee, get comfy and cozy.

00:01:10.230 --> 00:01:12.780
We are so glad that you've joined us for our chat.

00:01:13.370 --> 00:01:15.079
We are really excited to have you with us.

00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:19.890
And if this is your first time, Or you have been with us for a long time.

00:01:19.890 --> 00:01:24.030
We just started last episode, our pick your poison series.

00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:26.609
There's six of them that we're going to be going through.

00:01:26.609 --> 00:01:35.000
And all of them have the markers of something that will lead to divorce is this is the primary thing that's in your relationship or the primary way that you function.

00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:37.769
And so thank you for joining us today.

00:01:37.769 --> 00:01:41.039
It's a bit of a heavy thing, but we do have a couple things.

00:01:41.444 --> 00:01:46.694
We're talking about defensiveness and stonewalling and each one of those things, we have a solution on how to deal with them.

00:01:46.694 --> 00:01:49.274
So it's not like here's all the heavy and then walk away.

00:01:49.274 --> 00:01:49.724
And that's it.

00:01:49.724 --> 00:01:54.373
We want to give you a way out of these things in a way to proceed forward in your relationship.

00:01:54.373 --> 00:01:59.728
And you know, just as a note of encouragement on, on the side, we know that COVID has been tough.

00:01:59.938 --> 00:02:02.039
We know that it's been an interesting year.

00:02:02.025 --> 00:02:03.632
The relationships have been challenged.

00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:19.592
We have been coaching many couples or those last year, just on, on communication, on things that they didn't expect they ever had to run into because of COVID once both being close, proximity, being close proximity or kids, or being at home or he losing there's, there's a lot of stress.

00:02:19.592 --> 00:02:21.692
And so just know that we're here.

00:02:21.901 --> 00:02:24.002
We are so glad that you listen.

00:02:23.996 --> 00:02:26.139
We want to be on your side and if you.

00:02:26.544 --> 00:02:35.123
Have anything you need us to pray for, or just have any advice or a question that you need, something specific that's even to you, we don't have to read it on the podcast.

00:02:35.123 --> 00:02:45.054
We'd love to just answer you and be encouraging in any way that we possibly can, but just know that there we've, we're feeling the pressure too, and we're here to help.

00:02:45.114 --> 00:02:46.463
And that's what our purpose is.

00:02:46.843 --> 00:02:54.444
And if, if tonight's topics kind of interest you, then go back and listen to last the last podcast where we talked about.

00:02:54.474 --> 00:02:55.974
Criticism and contempt.

00:02:56.004 --> 00:02:58.145
So the sort of piggyback on that.

00:02:59.335 --> 00:02:59.905
Absolutely.

00:02:59.905 --> 00:03:03.235
So we're starting with our very next poison.

00:03:03.250 --> 00:03:05.300
Our next poison is defensiveness.

00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:13.969
And typically this oftentimes is I would say almost all the time, a response yeah.

00:03:14.360 --> 00:03:14.960
To being

00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:16.610
criticized, being criticized.

00:03:16.699 --> 00:03:17.539
And it's so true.

00:03:17.539 --> 00:03:19.370
Like I, we were planning.

00:03:19.405 --> 00:03:22.914
To talk about this tonight, I was like, Hm.

00:03:23.604 --> 00:03:34.705
I feel like I'm the, I was the queen of defensiveness because again, we're trying to get our spouses to respond to us in what we feel is a healthy way.

00:03:34.974 --> 00:03:40.824
And sometimes we resort to these kinds of tactics in order to get that response.

00:03:40.824 --> 00:03:41.814
And it just doesn't work that

00:03:41.814 --> 00:03:42.115
way.

00:03:42.294 --> 00:03:42.685
Right.

00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:52.491
And we, we sometimes use it even just to like, we're going to be critical and then they're going to be defensive just to make them get away or back off or not be a part

00:03:52.491 --> 00:03:55.391
of, and then come stonewalling when they're defensive.

00:03:55.901 --> 00:03:56.171
Right?

00:03:56.171 --> 00:04:00.491
Like we'll, we'll kind of formulate the cycle as we go through this, but bear with us.

00:04:00.536 --> 00:04:00.705
We

00:04:00.705 --> 00:04:04.034
want, yeah, we want to paint the picture of the defensive Ines before we get too far.

00:04:04.294 --> 00:04:04.895
Exactly.

00:04:04.895 --> 00:04:14.375
And also that if you find yourself being defensive or that being kind of your go-to response, there is hope like it's not, it's not the end for you.

00:04:14.375 --> 00:04:17.165
I think it's just bringing this to your knowledge.

00:04:17.699 --> 00:04:24.269
Giving you some tools and some practical ways to combat that so that you then can develop healthier patterns and communicate.

00:04:24.269 --> 00:04:24.329
Yeah.

00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:40.999
Do you want scripture, like kind of just came to mind now for all of these things that we've talked about being critical contempt, defensiveness stonewalling, and the last two that we're going to get into, all of it is the scripture that says a soft answer, turns away wrath instead of responding sometimes how we're feeling.

00:04:40.999 --> 00:04:42.978
If we just have a soft answer, gentle.

00:04:43.408 --> 00:04:47.728
Kind word instead of the response and oftentimes a soft answer.

00:04:48.178 --> 00:04:51.028
Isn't our go-to because that's not a normal, that's the exception.

00:04:51.088 --> 00:04:51.778
So respond

00:04:51.778 --> 00:04:52.769
rather than react.

00:04:52.798 --> 00:04:53.069
Right.

00:04:53.668 --> 00:04:57.358
And so part of the defensiveness, the way we want to lay this down is like, I'm going to say it to that.

00:04:57.358 --> 00:04:58.139
Like, here's the question?

00:04:58.139 --> 00:05:03.315
Did you, did you let Nathan and Katrina know that we're not going to be coming to their house as we

00:05:03.315 --> 00:05:03.735
promised?

00:05:04.115 --> 00:05:11.975
So I think we should reverse this because this would be more how it would, how I would be the one to ask you the question.

00:05:12.005 --> 00:05:12.276
Yes.

00:05:12.886 --> 00:05:18.346
So, and just wait, like the response that I'm going to give is going to be, you know, snarky too.

00:05:18.346 --> 00:05:19.245
So just hold on.

00:05:19.314 --> 00:05:23.124
Hey, I, so I'm approaching you already in a ticked off mood.

00:05:23.244 --> 00:05:23.384
You've

00:05:23.384 --> 00:05:24.194
already been critical.

00:05:24.223 --> 00:05:26.834
You already have contempt for me because you think I didn't do something

00:05:27.644 --> 00:05:30.134
now in that I think you're an idiot mode.

00:05:30.163 --> 00:05:33.913
I'm going to ask you a question in that, in that frame of mind.

00:05:33.944 --> 00:05:34.423
Absolutely.

00:05:34.603 --> 00:05:35.173
So, Hey.

00:05:35.829 --> 00:05:39.369
Did you call Nathan and Katrina, let them know that we're not coming tonight.

00:05:39.428 --> 00:05:41.228
As you promised you would do this morning.

00:05:42.338 --> 00:05:42.699
Wow.

00:05:44.019 --> 00:05:44.678
That's what I mean.

00:05:44.678 --> 00:05:44.949
Right.

00:05:44.949 --> 00:05:47.559
And, and I can say it like this because I have,

00:05:49.288 --> 00:05:52.079
and my response would be, I just been so busy.

00:05:52.559 --> 00:05:53.699
Why didn't you do it?

00:05:53.699 --> 00:05:55.048
You knew how busy my day was.

00:05:55.048 --> 00:05:55.528
Why didn't you

00:05:55.528 --> 00:05:55.829
call them?

00:05:56.069 --> 00:05:56.548
That's right.

00:05:56.548 --> 00:05:59.759
And then you would also say something like, was your phone broken?

00:06:00.389 --> 00:06:01.978
Could you not have picked the phone up?

00:06:02.588 --> 00:06:04.689
And given them a call or a text.

00:06:04.689 --> 00:06:11.028
I don't understand why your, so like not wanting to do that once you just

00:06:11.059 --> 00:06:11.598
communicate.

00:06:11.598 --> 00:06:12.319
Why is it, so

00:06:12.528 --> 00:06:13.548
why is it so hard for you to

00:06:13.548 --> 00:06:14.269
communicate?

00:06:14.298 --> 00:06:18.019
Well, sometimes I, I don't, I like straight up when I've said this to you, I don't understand.

00:06:18.288 --> 00:06:19.548
Oh, I wonder what's happened.

00:06:19.548 --> 00:06:22.249
Like, we'll use anything Katrina, like, Oh, I think we're supposed to go over there tonight.

00:06:22.249 --> 00:06:23.059
What do they want us to bring?

00:06:23.059 --> 00:06:24.588
I'm like, you could just text her

00:06:25.488 --> 00:06:25.968
that's right.

00:06:26.028 --> 00:06:27.709
And then I'm like, you could phone,

00:06:28.129 --> 00:06:29.238
like, and I'll be like, okay.

00:06:29.238 --> 00:06:29.749
So I will.

00:06:30.778 --> 00:06:31.108
Right.

00:06:31.108 --> 00:06:35.728
So the partner, so Brian is not going to respond very kindly.

00:06:35.728 --> 00:06:45.449
When my question is laced with tone, it's laced with a superiority, let's be honest where I think I'm better than you because.

00:06:45.809 --> 00:06:55.199
You had a job to do you failed to do it, and I'm going to, I'm going to like nail it to the wall that I know that you are a failure in communicating in this way.

00:06:55.668 --> 00:06:55.848
And

00:06:55.908 --> 00:07:01.519
in your defense, I gave you lots of reason to be critical and have contempt and do this.

00:07:02.269 --> 00:07:02.509
Okay.

00:07:02.509 --> 00:07:05.869
But that still doesn't make it right for me, right?

00:07:05.959 --> 00:07:06.499
No, no, no.

00:07:06.649 --> 00:07:09.619
And I certainly am no piece of cake either.

00:07:11.624 --> 00:07:22.963
There's a response to the defensiveness, but then there's the reverse blame that just happened here in our example, to make it somehow the other person's fault.

00:07:23.923 --> 00:07:24.254
Right.

00:07:24.283 --> 00:07:26.053
So I was like, why couldn't you do that?

00:07:26.053 --> 00:07:28.785
And then Brian's response to me was I was really busy today.

00:07:28.785 --> 00:07:30.915
Like, why couldn't you like, is your phone broken?

00:07:30.915 --> 00:07:36.435
Is this that the other, like, you're more than capable of dialing a number or this, that, and the other you fill in the blanks.

00:07:36.464 --> 00:07:36.824
Right?

00:07:37.214 --> 00:07:38.295
However that applies to you.

00:07:39.060 --> 00:07:39.990
Exactly.

00:07:40.050 --> 00:07:47.730
And then a simple non-defensive response could express ownership of that responsibility.

00:07:47.730 --> 00:07:57.029
We are advocates for you, take responsibility for what comes out of your mouth for your actions, your part in a disagreement or whatever.

00:07:57.029 --> 00:07:57.959
So being

00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:06.199
able to, and, and let's even go a step further where you're responsible for what you think, because even in that, that, that thought.

00:08:06.660 --> 00:08:10.649
That thought moment you're you can go to war and your thoughts before you.

00:08:10.649 --> 00:08:18.560
And so you have to take those captives just as much as you do with your responsibility, with your mouth, with what you come out, you have to control, what's kind of happening.

00:08:19.339 --> 00:08:20.060
That's right.

00:08:20.060 --> 00:08:21.980
And then responding.

00:08:21.980 --> 00:08:26.420
So we're not reacting or responding in a way that is non-defensive.

00:08:27.105 --> 00:08:28.454
That right there is going to be.

00:08:28.454 --> 00:08:30.615
What's going to help you understand your partner's perception.

00:08:31.144 --> 00:08:31.444
And if

00:08:31.444 --> 00:08:47.014
you're in a relationship and you know that you're defensive and you know that you're working out of a critical place, defensiveness only amplify, so only escalates the already critical issues that are going on in your, and in the relationship.

00:08:47.044 --> 00:08:49.774
And defensiveness never, ever, never has been.

00:08:49.774 --> 00:08:50.075
Man.

00:08:50.075 --> 00:08:51.544
I w I, I never said to that.

00:08:51.725 --> 00:08:52.235
Do you know what.

00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:53.950
I wish you were more defensive.

00:08:53.950 --> 00:08:55.480
I think it's helping our relationship.

00:08:55.480 --> 00:09:00.490
And I can't believe that we're not more defensive more often because I think this is going to fix our relationship.

00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:01.269
No one ever says that.

00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:01.919
Right.

00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:06.840
Maybe we should do a podcast where we are doing completely what we shouldn't do and see if anyone notices.

00:09:08.070 --> 00:09:09.179
I feel like that happens on this part.

00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:11.519
Right?

00:09:11.533 --> 00:09:14.833
Let's talk the non-defense response.

00:09:14.864 --> 00:09:15.764
What could it be?

00:09:15.884 --> 00:09:16.124
The

00:09:16.124 --> 00:09:18.734
thing about defensiveness too is it's also.

00:09:19.364 --> 00:09:21.073
Like, I think you mentioned it or alluded to it.

00:09:21.073 --> 00:09:23.594
It's also the way that you blame your partner for other things.

00:09:25.214 --> 00:09:27.823
It's just like, it's, it's part of the blame game.

00:09:27.900 --> 00:09:29.941
But it's, it really is.

00:09:29.941 --> 00:09:33.380
You're just, you're so defensive because they didn't do something and you're blaming them.

00:09:33.410 --> 00:09:34.770
So do you take any responsibility?

00:09:34.850 --> 00:09:35.000
That's

00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:39.201
right, because when we have talked about this in several podcasts, no one likes to be wrong.

00:09:39.711 --> 00:09:41.360
No one likes to say, Hey, you know what?

00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:44.600
I kind of, I dropped the ball, but you don't realize how much.

00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:50.311
For read them comes out of you just taking that stance of like, you know what I messed up.

00:09:50.461 --> 00:09:50.671
Yeah.

00:09:51.211 --> 00:10:03.006
There's, there's so much diffusion of communication bombs that would happen if people just took ownership of their part, you know what you're right.

00:10:03.037 --> 00:10:04.057
I shouldn't have responded.

00:10:04.086 --> 00:10:06.006
Like I really asked you really snarky.

00:10:06.006 --> 00:10:06.606
Let me start over.

00:10:07.106 --> 00:10:07.527
Yeah.

00:10:08.346 --> 00:10:12.687
And that's the actual, the actual antidote to defensiveness.

00:10:13.307 --> 00:10:15.667
Is to take responsibility for your actions.

00:10:15.846 --> 00:10:16.027
That's

00:10:16.027 --> 00:10:16.236
right.

00:10:16.267 --> 00:10:18.456
And a simple saying, Hey, I'm sorry.

00:10:18.456 --> 00:10:22.116
Like I know that I said I would phone them and I, my day got away from me.

00:10:22.168 --> 00:10:26.518
And I should have just looked at my schedule and said, Hey, I've got like appointment after appointment, honey.

00:10:26.518 --> 00:10:26.878
You're going to

00:10:26.878 --> 00:10:27.357
have to phone.

00:10:27.498 --> 00:10:27.738
Yeah.

00:10:27.857 --> 00:10:31.278
And it's amazing what a soft answer we'll do and a soft out there.

00:10:31.278 --> 00:10:33.918
It doesn't mean that you whisper and you're like, you know what?

00:10:34.038 --> 00:10:34.668
No, no, no.

00:10:34.697 --> 00:10:35.597
It's a soft answer.

00:10:35.597 --> 00:10:37.548
As you know what I understand.

00:10:37.577 --> 00:10:39.197
I take responsibility for this.

00:10:39.618 --> 00:10:41.868
I am sorry that I didn't do what I asked.

00:10:41.868 --> 00:10:43.638
Even, even if you miss the Mark.

00:10:44.082 --> 00:10:54.253
The way that you, you, you actually fix things is by taking responsibility, accepting the feedback and the healthy criticism and moving forward with that and be like, all right, you're right.

00:10:54.523 --> 00:10:55.243
I didn't do this.

00:10:55.243 --> 00:10:55.962
I'm sorry.

00:10:56.562 --> 00:10:57.163
That's my fault.

00:10:58.503 --> 00:10:59.133
Exactly.

00:10:59.163 --> 00:11:01.023
And expecting a different result.

00:11:01.052 --> 00:11:04.503
I mean, we're, we're, we're like things are stressed right now.

00:11:05.052 --> 00:11:06.222
People are stressed.

00:11:06.296 --> 00:11:07.525
The world is stressed.

00:11:07.525 --> 00:11:10.405
There's a tension, there's a huge tension.

00:11:10.471 --> 00:11:15.062
You know, the suicide rates are up and depression and mental illnesses are on the rise.

00:11:15.601 --> 00:11:16.772
There's a tension there.

00:11:16.772 --> 00:11:24.001
And if your go-to response is going to be defensiveness, it's not going to have the desired effect that you're hoping for.

00:11:24.172 --> 00:11:24.442
No,

00:11:24.772 --> 00:11:29.422
because oftentimes when you are in the, that part or that.

00:11:29.866 --> 00:11:33.076
Unhealthy style or unhealthy moment of your relationship.

00:11:33.076 --> 00:11:41.807
Defensiveness is already reaction to the criticism and the contempt that you're already feeling and to take responsibility is a really, really big step.

00:11:42.167 --> 00:11:45.947
And it, and here's the truth for all of you amplified marriage, family.

00:11:46.006 --> 00:11:50.657
It takes courage in any one of these things.

00:11:50.657 --> 00:11:53.417
It takes courage to take the first step and be like, all right.

00:11:53.851 --> 00:11:55.261
I'm going to take responsibility for my

00:11:55.261 --> 00:11:55.682
actions.

00:11:55.741 --> 00:11:56.192
That's right.

00:11:56.221 --> 00:11:59.822
That's the first step in all healthy conflict matters.

00:11:59.841 --> 00:12:00.351
And anything's,

00:12:00.351 --> 00:12:05.692
if we had an antidote for any of the ones that we've already gone to, it would have been just take responsibility for your actions.

00:12:06.412 --> 00:12:10.491
If you can do that, man, your marriage and your relationships can change.

00:12:10.876 --> 00:12:15.716
Because of your reaction to it, not your response to it, not your reaction to that.

00:12:16.006 --> 00:12:16.157
Yeah.

00:12:16.596 --> 00:12:16.927
Right.

00:12:17.167 --> 00:12:17.437
And

00:12:17.437 --> 00:12:20.287
we become defensive when we're protecting ourselves.

00:12:20.687 --> 00:12:20.937
Right.

00:12:21.037 --> 00:12:22.687
It's a wall that we put up around ourselves.

00:12:22.687 --> 00:12:23.706
It's just not a healthy wall.

00:12:24.006 --> 00:12:24.336
Right.

00:12:24.636 --> 00:12:24.937
And

00:12:24.966 --> 00:12:35.886
I like even thinking back to our early relationship or up to what does a few months ago, we we've, we still sometimes, and this is the thing, like I have a friend of mine named Michael.

00:12:35.886 --> 00:12:39.456
He never makes, he doesn't want to have heavy conversations or make decisions after eight o'clock.

00:12:40.172 --> 00:12:43.292
Right, because, yeah, because he's like, I'm tired by that point.

00:12:43.772 --> 00:12:45.392
And I just don't want to talk about these things.

00:12:45.392 --> 00:12:51.121
And so he said, if we have to have a heavy marriage conversation, he's like, no, I can't do this right now.

00:12:51.121 --> 00:13:09.251
I got to do it tomorrow morning when I'm fresh and rested, because he says in those moments when you're tired or you're already frustrated when you're tired, Your inhibitions are down and your, your, your crap filter, isn't going to filter any of the things that, you know, you shouldn't say it's just going to come out and then damage actually can be done by the words.

00:13:09.251 --> 00:13:16.932
There's a reason, the words, or the Bible talks so strongly about watch your tongue, captivate, your captivate, those things you, you can, you can be in control of that

00:13:17.491 --> 00:13:18.662
and not everything.

00:13:18.721 --> 00:13:21.361
And not every question that comes at you is an attack.

00:13:21.542 --> 00:13:21.782
Right.

00:13:21.841 --> 00:13:22.562
And I think, yeah.

00:13:22.937 --> 00:13:30.287
In an unhealthy state of mind, if you've, if you're the victim of trauma or abuse, those are the self protection.

00:13:30.280 --> 00:13:33.528
What's the word tactics that you revert to, right.

00:13:33.653 --> 00:13:36.592
And there is help there's counseling and there's help available.

00:13:36.832 --> 00:13:41.919
The Gottman Institute kind of laid out that whole scenario that we had done with the phoning late and whatever.

00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:44.230
And so that the defensive.

00:13:46.075 --> 00:13:48.625
Response to that whole conversation.

00:13:48.654 --> 00:13:50.485
They posted looks like this.

00:13:50.965 --> 00:13:53.184
It's not my fault that we're going to be late.

00:13:53.245 --> 00:13:55.914
It's your fault since you always get dressed at the last second.

00:13:58.105 --> 00:14:06.803
So for us, that one's kind of funny because if Natalie has to be anywhere, say she has to be at drama at four o'clock or five o'clock in the evening.

00:14:06.923 --> 00:14:10.913
Yeah, we have legitimately left the house at 25 after.

00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:14.950
And we are literally are four minutes from the location in which we were going to stop that's right.

00:14:15.129 --> 00:14:21.129
And even, even if we have to hit every light on the way over and we stopped to get coffee, we're still 15 minutes early.

00:14:21.129 --> 00:14:23.440
Cause our family is a very firm pleaser believers.

00:14:23.830 --> 00:14:27.250
If you're five minutes early, you're 10 minutes late.

00:14:27.789 --> 00:14:31.990
And so this one is kind of funny because we are, I'm always like we don't have to leave yet.

00:14:31.990 --> 00:14:32.620
It's four o'clock.

00:14:32.620 --> 00:14:33.580
You don't have to be there until five.

00:14:33.580 --> 00:14:34.690
It's just a big joke in our house.

00:14:35.210 --> 00:14:35.570
That's right.

00:14:35.570 --> 00:14:38.629
So I would be the one to say, it's not my fault that we're going to be late.

00:14:38.629 --> 00:14:47.690
It's your fault seeing that you always like put your shoes on the last second or you can't never find your keys or you were looking for your wallet or we're looking for this, or now you're going to the bathroom.

00:14:48.259 --> 00:14:50.179
You fill in the blanks for what it's going to be.

00:14:50.210 --> 00:14:53.149
This would be something I would say to you this week.

00:14:53.179 --> 00:14:53.720
That's right.

00:14:54.230 --> 00:14:57.230
And the antidote for that is what Brian.

00:14:57.835 --> 00:14:59.754
Antidote is taking responsibility.

00:14:59.875 --> 00:15:00.235
No, no, no, no.

00:15:00.264 --> 00:15:01.404
I don't like being late.

00:15:01.664 --> 00:15:03.014
Oh, you mean that antidote?

00:15:03.855 --> 00:15:05.684
Actually, not just the statement ended up.

00:15:05.715 --> 00:15:06.164
I got you.

00:15:06.164 --> 00:15:06.554
I got you.

00:15:06.554 --> 00:15:07.575
I thought that we weren't there yet.

00:15:08.355 --> 00:15:09.945
I don't like being late, but you're right.

00:15:10.065 --> 00:15:11.625
I can't say that one.

00:15:11.975 --> 00:15:17.294
Like I physically might be ill if I have to say that I don't like being late, but you're right.

00:15:17.774 --> 00:15:19.154
We don't want to have to leave so early.

00:15:19.215 --> 00:15:19.544
I can

00:15:19.544 --> 00:15:20.235
be a little more flexed.

00:15:20.654 --> 00:15:21.105
That's right.

00:15:21.164 --> 00:15:24.674
And even so to put it, no, because that's not how you talk.

00:15:25.355 --> 00:15:27.894
To put it in perspective of human eye.

00:15:27.966 --> 00:15:30.576
It'd be like, okay, well knowing.

00:15:30.725 --> 00:15:33.147
So I know that you don't like being late.

00:15:33.447 --> 00:15:41.576
And so, because I know that I will make sure that I have my keys and my wallet all kind of in one spot or ready to go for four 30 when you want to

00:15:41.576 --> 00:15:41.697
leave.

00:15:42.076 --> 00:15:44.297
Is it wrong to blame the kids to touch my stuff?

00:15:45.106 --> 00:15:45.947
Yes, that's wrong.

00:15:45.947 --> 00:15:51.256
We just talked about blaming God, take responsibility for your own keys and wallet and.

00:15:51.777 --> 00:15:53.307
Shoes and jacket.

00:15:53.336 --> 00:15:55.287
I didn't realize that it encompassed the kids too.

00:15:55.287 --> 00:15:56.336
I can't believe the kids either.

00:15:56.336 --> 00:15:56.787
Darn it.

00:15:56.846 --> 00:15:57.206
Okay.

00:15:57.236 --> 00:15:57.736
Moving on.

00:15:58.966 --> 00:15:59.506
That's right.

00:15:59.567 --> 00:16:14.397
And so you just have to assert understand, so you come at it from a place of, Hey, I understand, even though I think it's ridiculous, like you and I, you think it's ridiculous that I leave at four 30 and in my thoughts, I don't.

00:16:14.907 --> 00:16:16.736
Necessarily care that you think is ridiculous.

00:16:16.886 --> 00:16:18.267
I want to leave at four 30.

00:16:18.797 --> 00:16:19.067
Great.

00:16:19.157 --> 00:16:19.576
Yeah, that's

00:16:19.576 --> 00:16:19.756
fair.

00:16:19.780 --> 00:16:23.441
The very next poison is stonewalling.

00:16:23.681 --> 00:16:25.961
This one is really, I have done this.

00:16:26.140 --> 00:16:28.211
Can you explain to us what stonewalling is?

00:16:28.990 --> 00:16:34.120
So as defensiveness follows criticism, stonewalling follows contempt.

00:16:35.441 --> 00:16:43.208
And so our next, you know, the next podcast is just going to piggyback on all of us and kind of bring it Like more understanding to it, right?

00:16:44.019 --> 00:16:51.249
Stonewalling is when you're in a conflict or you're attempting to like manage the conflict.

00:16:52.208 --> 00:16:59.798
And for whatever reason, the listener withdraws from the conversation, they shut down, they stop responding, right?

00:17:00.129 --> 00:17:01.359
They ignore you.

00:17:01.928 --> 00:17:06.098
They grab their phones, they're scrolling through whatever they're scrolling through.

00:17:06.098 --> 00:17:08.199
They're not paying attention to anything you say.

00:17:08.933 --> 00:17:19.134
So rather than confronting the issue with your spouse, people tune out, they act busy, they distract themselves.

00:17:19.554 --> 00:17:22.884
They just might, they just might walk away and leave the conversation.

00:17:23.413 --> 00:17:25.693
We know someone who gets into this type of conflict,

00:17:27.493 --> 00:17:27.824
right?

00:17:28.183 --> 00:17:28.604
Yeah.

00:17:28.634 --> 00:17:36.119
It's really the effects that this has on the conversation can be really damaging if it's not.

00:17:36.894 --> 00:17:40.884
Dealt with and dealt with in a good way, because it's overwhelming.

00:17:40.991 --> 00:17:42.132
That's why you're stonewalling.

00:17:42.612 --> 00:17:45.402
Like these don't just happen overnight.

00:17:45.731 --> 00:17:46.602
And that's the thing.

00:17:46.602 --> 00:17:49.541
These are like over a period of time.

00:17:49.541 --> 00:17:56.449
And then all of a sudden in your feelings by the time it gets to this place becomes that understandable.

00:17:56.449 --> 00:17:58.608
This is my out, and this is my go-to out.

00:17:59.179 --> 00:18:00.739
And then it becomes a bad habit.

00:18:01.098 --> 00:18:01.398
Right.

00:18:02.644 --> 00:18:15.083
Because in the moment in some conversations in some hostile environment, it's actually easier for you to just disengage and take a break because of everything that's going on.

00:18:15.113 --> 00:18:15.353
Again,

00:18:15.353 --> 00:18:16.462
it's a coping mechanism.

00:18:16.492 --> 00:18:16.732
Yeah.

00:18:17.663 --> 00:18:27.143
Oftentimes because the first three poisons are already active and they've compiled and they're already just like, they're going through running through your, the lifeblood of your relationship.

00:18:27.712 --> 00:18:29.692
And stonewalling is just crushing it.

00:18:29.692 --> 00:18:35.752
You're just, and now, now this isn't making anything worse because now you can't even be defensive or the other person, can you be defensive?

00:18:36.083 --> 00:18:36.803
You can't face it.

00:18:36.803 --> 00:18:41.363
Like when you've done this to me, it does not help me.

00:18:41.962 --> 00:18:44.512
I get enraged oftentimes, because I'm the one that.

00:18:44.978 --> 00:18:46.417
I am the one in the relationship.

00:18:46.417 --> 00:18:47.978
That's like, no, we need to deal with this now.

00:18:48.038 --> 00:18:48.968
I don't like waiting.

00:18:48.968 --> 00:18:49.807
We've talked about that.

00:18:49.837 --> 00:18:50.077
Yep.

00:18:50.064 --> 00:18:53.136
I know, cause you'll just be like, look, I'm very, very mad right now.

00:18:53.376 --> 00:18:59.676
And, and even, even as part of the solution to, to stonewalling is look, you'll say to me, I'm mad.

00:19:00.382 --> 00:19:01.571
I'm very mad, so mad.

00:19:01.592 --> 00:19:02.632
I don't even want to talk about this.

00:19:02.632 --> 00:19:03.832
I need to take a break.

00:19:03.862 --> 00:19:05.692
Can we come back to this half an hour from now?

00:19:05.721 --> 00:19:07.011
Can we come back to an hour?

00:19:07.221 --> 00:19:13.582
I'll tell you, you said to me, I'll tell you in that time in 60 minutes or an hour, if that's long enough, if not, you're going to give me some more time and like, okay.

00:19:13.692 --> 00:19:14.231
Yeah.

00:19:14.321 --> 00:19:15.372
And it's so important.

00:19:15.372 --> 00:19:24.342
Actually, the Gottman Institute says that when we Stonewall, we may not even be in a physiological state where we can discuss things rationally.

00:19:25.001 --> 00:19:28.721
So just that alone of being aware.

00:19:29.737 --> 00:19:31.926
That there's a physiological response.

00:19:32.527 --> 00:19:34.086
It's time to take a break.

00:19:34.477 --> 00:19:34.686
Right.

00:19:34.717 --> 00:19:38.565
And so their recommendation is 20 minutes for me personally.

00:19:38.595 --> 00:19:39.585
I need 30 minutes.

00:19:39.585 --> 00:19:41.414
So if I feel like I'm attacked.

00:19:41.954 --> 00:19:42.194
Yeah.

00:19:42.237 --> 00:19:53.343
And it's coming out of that place of contempt for a specific it can be either a person or it can be this, this is a pattern I've noticed in a said person.

00:19:53.778 --> 00:19:55.038
Over a period of time.

00:19:55.038 --> 00:20:05.208
So my hackles are up and if I feel attacked, my initial response in the past has been to lash out verbally.

00:20:06.167 --> 00:20:08.928
And let me tell you the things that I can recall.

00:20:08.928 --> 00:20:10.847
You're like, when did that ever happen?

00:20:11.448 --> 00:20:12.768
And it's not nice.

00:20:12.827 --> 00:20:14.117
It is like a Viper.

00:20:14.147 --> 00:20:17.147
I can definitely be a Viper with my words.

00:20:17.178 --> 00:20:18.468
I'm aware of that.

00:20:19.188 --> 00:20:22.847
And if you're going to come at me, kind of like, and poke the bear.

00:20:22.978 --> 00:20:24.478
I know exactly what I'm going to say.

00:20:24.567 --> 00:20:24.807
Yeah.

00:20:25.317 --> 00:20:25.617
Okay.

00:20:25.617 --> 00:20:41.248
So when someone comes to me now and I feel attacked now, I, I feel like I've, I've had help in counseling and things like that, to be able to say, listen, I hear what you're saying.

00:20:42.178 --> 00:20:42.478
I am.

00:20:43.077 --> 00:20:45.538
You need to know that I'm really angry right now.

00:20:47.127 --> 00:20:49.678
I am going to take 30 minutes.

00:20:50.623 --> 00:20:52.123
So that I can calm down.

00:20:52.123 --> 00:21:13.212
I can collect my thoughts when I'm calm and when I'm not like I've, you know, I've put away my darts, my poisonous darts that I'm going to hug at you when I've put that away and I've processed what just happened and how you approached me, then we can talk about the situation and.

00:21:13.587 --> 00:21:16.978
30 minutes might seem like an eternity for someone like you.

00:21:17.008 --> 00:21:17.307
Right.

00:21:17.307 --> 00:21:18.958
And who wants it dealt with right away.

00:21:19.498 --> 00:21:26.038
But the people in my sphere have really come to appreciate that boundary because it will be resolved.

00:21:26.387 --> 00:21:28.218
You will talk them just it's.

00:21:28.367 --> 00:21:29.028
It's awesome.

00:21:29.748 --> 00:21:30.587
And it's, it's going to

00:21:30.587 --> 00:21:32.928
be ugly and it's not often resolved in that same time.

00:21:32.958 --> 00:21:35.238
And even the Gottman Institute.

00:21:35.653 --> 00:21:38.323
Did a study about the taking a break?

00:21:38.318 --> 00:21:40.439
They called it the longitudinal research study.

00:21:40.492 --> 00:21:49.133
They interrupted couples after about 15 minutes of argument and told them just they, they were in a room they were studying or they were arguing as part of their study.

00:21:49.133 --> 00:21:52.252
And then after, when they would come in, they would just adjust some of the equipment in the room.

00:21:52.252 --> 00:21:58.192
And they talked to him when they came into the room, they weren't allowed to talk about the issue, but they had to read magazines for half an hour.

00:21:58.823 --> 00:22:00.053
And what happened was.

00:22:00.563 --> 00:22:11.482
When they, when they came back after that 30 minutes and they were doing something else, like you can do something else, listen to music, listen to podcasts, go for a run, go workout, read, take a play with your dog for a bit.

00:22:11.873 --> 00:22:15.623
But that break, they came back and their heart rates were down because you're in conflict.

00:22:15.623 --> 00:22:23.932
So your journaling goes up, even if it's with your spouse and the interaction after that, or the argument after that was actually a lot more positive directed, and

00:22:25.012 --> 00:22:25.883
they worked it through.

00:22:26.932 --> 00:22:37.462
And in that time where you're doing something to calm down, this is not the time where we are hashing out in our minds, what we're going to say and where we're going to justify, you know?

00:22:37.462 --> 00:22:38.512
Well, they came at me like this.

00:22:38.512 --> 00:22:40.403
And so when I, when, when I calm down.

00:22:40.807 --> 00:22:42.038
This is what I'm going to say back.

00:22:42.038 --> 00:22:44.347
This is not what that is supposed to accomplish

00:22:44.498 --> 00:22:47.788
because like the, the actual antidote for this one is called.

00:22:47.998 --> 00:22:48.928
We haven't really said it.

00:22:48.928 --> 00:22:50.788
We just kind of went into the antidote.

00:22:50.788 --> 00:23:00.028
It's a psychological self soothing as the way the government Institute, but there's people that I know even time over there's people that I know that in that timeout.

00:23:00.623 --> 00:23:07.643
Are brooding over the situation and brooding, oftentimes in our mind we take something that was smaller and we made it bigger.

00:23:08.093 --> 00:23:12.623
So the mountain started as a molehill, but in our mind turned it into a mountain.

00:23:12.833 --> 00:23:13.163
That's right.

00:23:13.853 --> 00:23:24.157
Legitimately you've heard that said almost in like now I said this to out of a molehill and I said this to Natalie, not in a nice way where like, I can't believe you thought that was such a big deal.

00:23:24.518 --> 00:23:27.218
When it wasn't and that just exacerbates the situation.

00:23:27.218 --> 00:23:28.538
Nothing is good because of that.

00:23:28.538 --> 00:23:36.847
But when in this case, don't brood do something else, completely different focus on something else, sit down and actually let your mind go.

00:23:36.968 --> 00:23:39.698
Don't focus on what they said or how are you going to respond?

00:23:39.877 --> 00:23:41.468
Just like we've said before, there's that saying?

00:23:42.698 --> 00:23:46.778
Most people listen with the intent to respond, not with the intent to understand.

00:23:47.107 --> 00:23:50.377
This is a moment where you need to just understand and take

00:23:50.377 --> 00:23:50.708
a break.

00:23:50.738 --> 00:23:52.597
And if you need to have a nap, have a nap.

00:23:52.867 --> 00:23:53.137
Yeah.

00:23:53.857 --> 00:23:55.087
I like that all the time out.

00:23:55.438 --> 00:23:55.617
Yeah.

00:23:55.647 --> 00:23:56.307
Call a timeout.

00:23:56.337 --> 00:24:00.503
And I have said this to my kids, I've said it to my spouse.

00:24:00.564 --> 00:24:02.124
I've said it to family members.

00:24:02.124 --> 00:24:07.644
Listen, I am going to put myself in a timeout because what what's going to happen next.

00:24:07.644 --> 00:24:09.713
If I don't, it's just going to be really nasty.

00:24:09.773 --> 00:24:10.074
And

00:24:10.074 --> 00:24:11.124
the thing is, is that.

00:24:12.003 --> 00:24:16.983
Oftentimes, this is just a thought that I had just looking back to our own relationship.

00:24:17.703 --> 00:24:19.413
Oftentimes we stonewalled.

00:24:19.489 --> 00:24:22.999
And instead of coming back to deal with it, we lifted up the rug and sorry.

00:24:23.828 --> 00:24:25.358
Oh yeah, we were notorious for

00:24:25.358 --> 00:24:25.689
that.

00:24:26.019 --> 00:24:26.888
I didn't deal with it.

00:24:26.888 --> 00:24:32.648
And we were bottling up our emotions and our issues that we had, and that never leads to anything.

00:24:32.648 --> 00:24:32.919
Good.

00:24:33.453 --> 00:24:43.804
No, it always ends up leading to bigger issues, more criticism, more contempt, more defensiveness, because you, you actually came back after that 30 minutes.

00:24:43.894 --> 00:24:52.384
And instead of dealing with it directly, even if you agree to disagree on in that moment, you came to an agreement and you positively walked away from it.

00:24:52.834 --> 00:24:57.874
And I don't know how many times we came back to the same blinking thing, because we just swept it under the rug.

00:24:57.874 --> 00:24:58.743
I said, dealing with it.

00:24:58.743 --> 00:24:58.804
Yeah.

00:24:59.544 --> 00:25:00.983
And it will rear its ugly head.

00:25:01.193 --> 00:25:01.584
Oh boy.

00:25:01.673 --> 00:25:14.663
Out of nowhere, out of, and multiple times, I think, you know, if we can state that we've all been stressed at some point, there's a physiological response to being stressed for me.

00:25:14.693 --> 00:25:16.943
I get heart palpitations, my heart.

00:25:16.943 --> 00:25:18.384
I feel like I can't catch my breath.

00:25:18.798 --> 00:25:30.071
I feel like your, your heart rate increases, your body releases, stress hormones into your bloodstream, and it can even trigger your fight or flight response.

00:25:30.311 --> 00:25:41.733
Those are all, those are all good in the right context, in the right context, fight or flight is not bad, but in a situation where we're talking, that's not a good Response.

00:25:41.743 --> 00:25:43.394
It's not a good body's response.

00:25:43.423 --> 00:25:43.663
Right?

00:25:43.993 --> 00:25:55.933
And so when the emotional stress is super high, the proper thing to do, or the wise thing to do would be to take that little bit of a break, change the scenery, right?

00:25:56.023 --> 00:26:00.884
Don't think about the situation, calm yourself down.

00:26:01.334 --> 00:26:01.844
Meditate.

00:26:01.844 --> 00:26:06.913
If you have to, and then come back at it with a clear mind, because there's really

00:26:07.153 --> 00:26:09.314
no one else in your life that can elicit.

00:26:09.749 --> 00:26:14.249
Positive or negative responses as much as your partner, right?

00:26:14.338 --> 00:26:14.548
Yep.

00:26:14.788 --> 00:26:20.249
And so the two things that we've talked about today have been being defensive defensiveness.

00:26:20.699 --> 00:26:29.638
The antidote for defensiveness is do you take responsibility for your actions and stonewalling, which is, you know, you run away from the fight and you shut out everything.

00:26:29.788 --> 00:26:30.538
You don't deal with it.

00:26:30.943 --> 00:26:33.374
And the antidote for that is actually just a moment.

00:26:33.374 --> 00:26:35.443
And you just take a break yourself.

00:26:35.473 --> 00:26:38.773
You self-soothe, you don't brood on the situation.

00:26:38.773 --> 00:26:39.763
You don't find out.

00:26:39.824 --> 00:26:47.233
I'm going to pick on the worst possible things that they did, but do you actually find a way to come back at it positively when not focusing on it

00:26:47.564 --> 00:26:48.223
and taking a break?

00:26:48.243 --> 00:26:48.933
That's right.

00:26:48.933 --> 00:26:55.084
And just to, to compare last podcast at this one criticism.

00:26:55.769 --> 00:26:58.169
Is the precursor to a defensive attitude.

00:26:58.409 --> 00:26:58.709
Right.

00:26:59.098 --> 00:27:02.848
And contempt is the precursor to someone stonewalling.

00:27:02.909 --> 00:27:03.028
Right.

00:27:03.828 --> 00:27:13.431
And it's amazing how all of the things, even in the next episode that we're going to be discussing all of them, all of them, all of them, all of them work together to actually,

00:27:13.554 --> 00:27:14.844
It's a nasty little stew we're

00:27:14.844 --> 00:27:15.233
making.

00:27:15.263 --> 00:27:15.534
Yeah.

00:27:15.594 --> 00:27:17.693
And it, it causes rifts in the relationship.

00:27:18.473 --> 00:27:18.804
Right.

00:27:19.413 --> 00:27:23.419
And so it's we still hope that you've enjoyed this one and being

00:27:23.419 --> 00:27:24.199
encouraged.

00:27:24.199 --> 00:27:27.858
Like these are like, these are not light topics.

00:27:27.858 --> 00:27:31.939
These are not light habits that we're talking about.

00:27:31.999 --> 00:27:38.058
And we're talking about them because one we're passionate about them and we've, we've, we've been them.

00:27:38.778 --> 00:27:38.959
Yeah.

00:27:38.989 --> 00:27:42.348
W we're passionate about helping people get out of them, passionate about them.

00:27:42.348 --> 00:27:43.398
I'm passionate about no,

00:27:43.398 --> 00:27:47.568
but about getting it out there because no, we need to be talking about this kind of stuff.

00:27:48.013 --> 00:27:56.023
And there's stuff in relationships that just as Christians, we grew up not talking about and not dealing with the mental health issues or the things that are going on.

00:27:56.023 --> 00:27:59.983
And we want to offer up as much as options and solutions for people as well.

00:28:00.394 --> 00:28:00.993
Absolutely.

00:28:00.993 --> 00:28:02.284
And to know that you're not alone.

00:28:02.403 --> 00:28:03.003
Yeah, absolutely.

00:28:03.243 --> 00:28:07.232
And if this is something that you've, you've really enjoyed, you enjoy this podcast.

00:28:07.232 --> 00:28:09.782
It does mean a lot to us when you share it.

00:28:09.782 --> 00:28:13.053
But it also means a lot to us when people share the podcast.

00:28:13.857 --> 00:28:15.147
And then get something from it.

00:28:15.657 --> 00:28:19.557
Ultimately, the reason we're doing this is to help as many people as we possibly can.

00:28:19.587 --> 00:28:19.857
Right.

00:28:20.327 --> 00:28:22.228
And so just let people know what amplified marriage.

00:28:22.228 --> 00:28:24.627
You can follow us on Instagram and on Facebook.

00:28:25.288 --> 00:28:26.548
And we say this all the time.

00:28:26.548 --> 00:28:31.498
If there's a topic, or if there is something you disagree with or you want to add to, we'd love to hear from you.

00:28:32.337 --> 00:28:35.667
You can email us an amplified marriage@gmail.com.

00:28:35.728 --> 00:28:40.788
And as you hear us say, every time, including if you're in these lanes of.

00:28:40.826 --> 00:28:43.702
Criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling.

00:28:43.972 --> 00:28:47.212
Even if you're in these lanes, we believe that marriage can be reset, right.

00:28:47.762 --> 00:28:49.452
Stored and recharged.

00:28:50.053 --> 00:28:50.742
Thanks for listening.

00:28:50.923 --> 00:28:51.673
Talk to you soon.