Season 4 Ep. 1 // “When Marriage Starts to Drift: How to Stay Close on Purpose”

Here you go, Bryan — timestamps gone, language untouched:

(Natalie): Most marriages don't break with yelling. They break with silence. It's not the conflict. It's the distance. The conversations you avoid, the nights you scroll instead of talk, the things you hold back. It all adds up. Silence convinces you things are fine when they're not. And the longer it goes, the harder it feels to bridge the gap. But intentional couples don't ignore the distance. They lean in.

(Natalie): They start awkward conversations. They ask hard questions. It's not comfortable, but it's what keeps a marriage from quietly falling apart. Closeness doesn't happen by accident. Speak, lean in, stay close. Intentionally.

(Bryan): Foreign. Welcome to another episode of Amplified Marriage. I'm Bryan.

(Natalie): I'm Natalie.

(Bryan): Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, you know what I'm going to say. We're so glad that you joined us. So get comfy, grab some coffee, go for a run, do what you got to do. Get your notepad out. But we just want to talk a little bit about what drift in marriage actually looks like. And so if you missed our last episode, we want you to go back, take a listen to it. It's on sexual intimacy. That's just the beginning of many. We want to talk about sex, where we broke down our physical connection, talked about church growing up and the culture that surrounded that, that idea of sexual intimacy. And so this opposite episode, like I said, we're talking about the marriage drift.

(Bryan): And how do you avoid the marriage drift? Are you excited?

(Natalie): I am, actually. I'm excited because we know this topic a lot. We know it very well. It's something that we've struggled with.

(Bryan): Well, I think that I would say that the majority of couples at some point in their marriage have actually struggled with marriage drift. It's kind of like. Like when I'm talking with our church team, there's, like, there's mission drift, or there's. There's vision drift, or there's the things in your relay. There's relationship drift, or there's friendship drift. There's all kinds of drift out in the world. And I would say that if you're in a relationship with anyone and you want that relationship to be valuable and something that you care for, you really have to put effort into any kind of relationship. But, you know, this is a marriage podcast. We're going to talk about marriage.

(Bryan): And so 100.

(Natalie): And, like, the things that you value place effort in.

(Bryan): Right.

(Natalie): And so, you know, even if you're at a place of. I just don't know if I value my current situation.

(Bryan): Right.

(Natalie): Hopefully, at the end of this, you'll have some tools and you'll, you'll feel encouraged to press in.

(Bryan): Yeah.

(Natalie): And not feel like you're alone in that journey.

(Bryan): Right. And so let's just describe what drift looks like. And I would say this is not going to be a definitive list today.

(Natalie): Oh gosh, no.

(Bryan): I think that so many couples struggle with different things, have different things that, that they need to work on. But marriage drift is one of those things where you say you're really, you used to have really good communication or he really had lots of good conversations or they just like even what we, we have, it's like you, you shrink it down to just the logistics of everyday life.

(Natalie): Right. I, I, in my mind, I think back to those dating years. We had nothing to lose. The, you know, everything to gain, everything to gain. If you think back, like, we're not probably not the only couples who spent every time that they could together, together learning about each other, asking questions. What are your likes? What are your dislikes? And it creates the foundation. And then you get married and in. And we felt guilt. I don't know if this is the right way of saying it, but like we are guilty of falling into this trap of not nurturing that.

(Bryan): Right.

(Natalie): We're not. We weren't. We kind of just were like, well, I kind of know all I need to know.

(Bryan): And so, and I've, it's almost the attitude of I've won the prize and now I don't need to put effort into it that much longer because now I got in, which is a really weird thing. So just like a side question that has had. Is it because is that a cultural thing or is that just a. We put so much pressure on couples to have this amazing journey and amazing story and then they, it ends with getting married and then there's just not enough communication.

(Natalie): But what life after marriage looks like.

(Bryan): What life after marriage looks like, what it could be, what it looks like? Or is it because we're so good at just saying that line? It's about the journey, not the destination. And then you get to the destination of you got married and all of.

(Natalie): A sudden what, it's cracked up?

(Bryan): Well, most often times it isn't. I would say 90% of marriages, especially in the people that we've coached in our own relationship, when they got married, within a few months, it looks different than they thought it was going to look. And one of the things that we do when we do our pre marriage coaching and we work with couples even after they've been married is the reality of what marriage, Right. Is that expectation, but also reality of what the marriage is because of, you know, time. Now you have jobs and now you're living in the same place. All, all the, you know, the things that you're going to see, things that all the rom com movies skip over.

(Natalie): Right.

(Bryan): So we like to tell people the reality of these situations, but the negative that you see alternatively also on those rom coms can actually be avoided or at least mitigated a little bit by communicating. Well, I remember working through some of the problems. Right.

(Natalie): I remember like we, when I was in college, I'd have to be at my practicum at 7am yeah. We would be out to. At Perkins, which back in the day it was like open 24 hours.

(Bryan): It had the best french fries.

(Natalie): Oh, the best french fries and ranch dip. And we'd sit out there just talking till 3, 3, 4 in the morning.

(Bryan): Yeah.

(Natalie): And I'd go home, sleep for two hours, get up and do my practicum. And then I remember when we got married, I was like, well, we're married now, so good night.

(Bryan): Yeah.

(Natalie): And kind of in my own mind checked out of that. Excited to be with you till the wee hours of the morning. Like it kind of was like, we're married now so that we don't need to keep doing that. Good night, I'll see you in the morning.

(Bryan): Which I think for us it was, it was a really, it was a really quick. Or like a rip off the band aid. That's the wrong way to say, but it was a really fast decline in. Decline's the wrong word, but it was a really fast into that mentality of like, just, like just chilling and relaxing, like I've won the prize now I don't have to put any effort into, into this because I already have it. And I think part of the mentality too that I would like to like would be probably, well, I live with this person now and I see them in the mornings, in the evenings, I'm with them all the time. Whereas before we didn't live together. No, we didn't. We waited to have sex.

(Bryan): To have sex. Sex to. Before we got like. Until we got married. So we weren't living in the same place. You had your own place. Before we got married, we, so we had all that. But it was, even for us, it was like shortly after, it was almost like the, the, the gold that was on there just kind of wore off just like that. And we moved into this place of just almost complacency, which didn't help us long term. No, no.

(Natalie): And like.

(Bryan): Or short term.

(Natalie): I mean, as we're talking about this and kind of we were prepping of like, thinking back to was there a definitive. This was the moment. And it really. It. As fast as the switch happened.

(Bryan): Right.

(Natalie): Like, I know that we say, like, oh, it doesn't happen overnight. And.

(Bryan): And it happened within a couple months. Like, it wasn't. It wasn't long. It was. It was a couple months. But then our.

(Natalie): Almost like an apathy.

(Bryan): Yeah, like, there was a. Definitely an apathy in the relationship. And I think part of it, too, was now that I'm older. And one of the things that we love doing is we love coaching couples into intentionality. Like, even I would say too, that we. Your. Your parents didn't have a role model relationship. That was something that we could look at and be like, man, I want that. My parents were divorced, so we didn't have that.

(Natalie): Yeah.

(Bryan): We weren't really completely involved in church. I didn't have a lot of church guys that I could be like, hey, I look up to these guys. And so I think part of it is, is that. Exactly. Culture says get married, then what happens after? There's none of that. Was that that title that you love, beyond the Glass Slipper? What happens after you get married? Right, right.

(Natalie): There is a whole nother world beyond the Cinderella story that we've.

(Bryan): All right.

(Natalie): And I still love a good Cinderella story, don't get me wrong. And I'm sure there are couples out there that really had that do.

(Bryan): Absolutely. Don't fault them for that.

(Natalie): No, not at all. And. And I, you know, can appreciate that that's been their journey thus far. Will it remain a Cinderella story?

(Bryan): Time will tell.

(Natalie): Time will tell.

(Bryan): Right. So then what happens when you. You get into this place of marriage drift, which for us was really quick. And then we were able to correct a few years later and almost getting divorced.

(Natalie): Yeah.

(Bryan): But like, literally the conversations were not deep. They were just logistics. We didn't have any kids at the time, so it was like, how are we going to pay the bills? How's the insurance on the car? The gas or the car?

(Natalie): Like, a very quickly went from. Excuse me, from like, you working days to my working night.

(Bryan): Oh, yeah, that's true.

(Natalie): Right. And so we were on opposite shifts, and we didn't.

(Bryan): And again, we come back. We didn't know how to be intentional.

(Natalie): No.

(Bryan): We didn't know how to be intentional at all about putting our relationship first.

(Natalie): And even expressing to each other.

(Bryan): Right.

(Natalie): What we what we actually needed without resorting to unhealthy tactics and antics.

(Bryan): Yeah, right.

(Natalie): So, I mean, yeah, we talked about bills and, you know, who's doing what. I mean, we're on opposite schedules. Right. So I slept all day long because I work graveyards and you worked all day long, so not a whole lot got done.

(Bryan): So. And here's the thing about marriage drift. Marriage drift is interesting because when you're talking about marriage drift, it used to be that there would have been any relationship, probably lots of passion, like maybe sexual passion, but passion to be with each other. Passion to.

(Natalie): And we definitely had passion to be with each other.

(Bryan): But then when we got married, it kind of wore off. And then life just became mundane and we. We didn't really know how to get out of it. And we actually get to. Went to the place where we were just talking about this regular normal trivia things we didn't really discuss dreams or heart or anything like that. Moving into a place where we fought all the time to the place where we almost were like, we're just not going to fight about anything because it was easier just to avoid us.

(Natalie): Yeah.

(Bryan): Before talking. Right. We were really good at fighting.

(Natalie): It just went around in a circle. Right. There was never any resolve.

(Bryan): Right. And.

(Natalie): And even then just led into a cycle of downhill spiral.

(Bryan): Yeah. Right. And. And it's not like in that drift, I was trustworthy because I was stepping out or I was. I mean, if you listen to our podcast, you know, I was not a gem at the beginning of the relationship.

(Natalie): But that is not one area that you ever like. Neither of us were unfaithful.

(Bryan): No, no, no, that's not. What I mean, though, is like, we're looking at like the. The relationship wasn't contentious that way.

(Natalie): Right.

(Bryan): But it was just contentious. And then all of a sudden, like, what happens is, is as you couples that you get, you get to a place where you just don't fight anymore or you choose not to fight anymore because, like what you said, you're just going around, you don't want to talk about this thing again. And then the danger is that you drift into peaceful in the moment for the short term, but long term, you're just building resentment towards me, which really is what happened in both of our cases. We just built resentment towards each other.

(Bryan): And I was angry and I was frustrated, and we really had to work something things out.

(Natalie): Well, there's a scripture without vision that people perish.

(Bryan): Right. We had no vision.

(Natalie): We had no vision and we literally walked out the perishing of our relationship.

(Bryan): Oh, yeah.

(Natalie): Quite frankly. And where was God in the mix of that? That's a really great question.

(Bryan): Well, let's say this way. I even said it when I was preaching on Sunday, said I knew all the right verses.

(Natalie): Right.

(Bryan): I knew all the right things I was supposed to say the right mask I was supposed to wear. So did you. You've talked about this. We could fight, like, tooth and nail on the way to church and then get to church, and no one would know that we were even having, like, an argument all the way to church. Just conflict.

(Natalie): Well, then, you know, I was talking with somebody and a while back, and they were like, you know, it's shocking to hear how you guys struggled, because when we were dating, we were that. That couple that. That apparently other people looked at, like, not the golden couple, but we were the couple to emulate couples goals. Yeah. Right. Wherever did you put us on that kind of pedestal? Like. No, you're right.

(Natalie): Right.

(Bryan): I mean. I mean, I mean, let's be honest. I was awesome with my big hair and silver chains when I was a kid.

(Natalie): And your silk shirts. We'll just leave that at that.

(Bryan): Yeah. I love my silk shirts. Thank you.

(Natalie): But how it just got me thinking of the mask that we put on was so deceiving. Like, not even our closest friend knew we were struggling. He was shocked.

(Bryan): Yeah.

(Natalie): Right. And so we thought we were barely holding it together, but apparently in public, like, we could act the part and incredibly well.

(Bryan): That's right. We didn't realize that we were so good at that until later. Right. And so, like, even in all this marriage drift and all the things that were going on is we had got to a place where there was no thriving. It was just surviving.

(Natalie): If that.

(Bryan): And. And the decline was within what we almost got divorced within the two first two and a half years. You'd have to listen to the podcast. I want to go into the whole story, but I had a revelation moment where God shifted everything in my mind, showed me in 10 seconds what the life would be like, what I didn't want, But.

(Natalie): So can I ask a question? The drift that was so obvious back then, now that we're 24 years married.

(Bryan): Why, we can look back and be like, I know why now.

(Natalie): The drift because we're smarter is sneakier.

(Bryan): No, that's true. Yeah.

(Natalie): Where your time schedule fills up and now you've got the kids and you're racing them to this, that and the other extracurricular activity, and, you know, I'm out the door. You're coming home, it's like, see ya. Right? And so I think one thing to caution is the drift might not be as obvious but as camouflaged in busyness.

(Bryan): That's. Yeah, that is true. And I would say that because our culture worships busyness, that that would be one of those things that's really easy to just get into the habit of. Oh, we're so busy.

(Natalie): Like, we almost wear it like a badge of honors. Like, how are you? I'm so busy. Yeah, I've done this. Yeah, I'm just so busy. Like, you know, I must seem so much more important because of my business.

(Bryan): I've been trying to say instead of, oh, I'm so busy. I'm like, you know what? Life is full. It's good, but it's full. Yeah, right. Like we were sitting with my sister and my brother in law and we're about to go back to school and I was just listening to them talk back and forth as we're all just talking about what school looks like. And they had this moment where my brother in law, Jeremy is just kind of looking, he's like, where are we going to have time for us? And she stops and she kind of thinks. He's like, holy moly.

(Bryan): I said with their gymnastics because two of their kids, one plays hockey, one sports. Yeah. One plays hockey, one does gymnastics. Really competitive and competitive in both. And so they've decided that this is a value for their two kids and they're going to put time and effort and money into it. And so we love that about it because we get to watch hockey and gymnastics. But they had this moment right in front of us where they're like, oh no, we're going to have to actually schedule time on Mondays and watch them just kind of work it out. Right, right in front of us. It was real time. He's like, no, we have to do it on Mondays. We have time on this. And it's not like there's no other opportunities for connect. But he's. They weren't talking about just sex.

(Bryan): They weren't talking. They were like, we want to watch a movie together.

(Natalie): Intimacy.

(Bryan): Yeah. They want intimacy where they can talk, they can have vision. They could talk about their week, they could talk about the stuff that they're struggling with. I thought it was really cool to watch them.

(Natalie): I love them.

(Bryan): Right? I love that. But I watch them figure it out right in front of us. Like, hey, we. This is so intentional. One thing they've really taught us over the years is two things. One, they Value and dating each other. Dating each other. They do it really, really well. We've learned a lot because of that from them. Because I'm not do that well. We, we do it better even now.

(Natalie): I wouldn't say we do it well. I say we're copycats.

(Bryan): Yeah. We steal it from them.

(Natalie): You steal from them.

(Bryan): Then we go with them.

(Natalie): Oh, what'd you do? Oh, we went on a date. Oh, shoot. Maybe we should schedule.

(Bryan): Or we just schedule the dates or.

(Natalie): We schedule dates with them.

(Bryan): But they, they. There's two things. One, they've intentionally chosen to date each other. Really? And they've. Do they do it so well?

(Natalie): Yeah.

(Bryan): And they miss too like it'. They're perfect. But they, they do it so well. And the other thing they're really good at is they, they have intentionally built holidays, like valued in holidays. Whether it's Disney or we're going away for a weekend.

(Natalie): Yeah.

(Bryan): And we didn't do that very well either.

(Natalie): No.

(Bryan): So we've learned a lot from those two. But those two intentional pieces kept. Have kept them from drifting so far apart that they don't actually know each other. When they come together on a Saturday night after the whole week has been crazy with hockey and gymnastics, they come back and all of a sudden they're, they're all together and like we'll, we'll.

(Natalie): Jump ahead and then we'll come back of like tips that you can do if you have to schedule time together. Schedule time together. I thought that was so wonderful when, when they were like, yep, it worked. What day are we in the same place at the same time? And schedule was like, wow. Like, I mean, we know because we know them really well. We know that they do that. But to, to have them just articulate that and it was just a great reminder.

(Bryan): It was really cool of as.

(Natalie): I mean, we're entering a whole new season too. Of remaining intentional regarding our time of connectivity together. That. That was just a great reminder.

(Bryan): Yeah.

(Natalie): I love you guys. If you're listening.

(Bryan): So. And even all this, like, we want to go from a position of what marriage drift, where you're coming back into the place. And so something that we did for a long time, we actually called a 15 minute couch time. You remember that?

(Natalie): Yeah, yeah. And in our earlier podcast we, we talked about.

(Bryan): Yeah. Or we. I would come home from work and the first thing is I would say hi to the kids and I would say, hey kids, mom and dad are going to take 15 minutes and we're just going to decompress and we're going to talk. And it was just no phones, just looking each other in the eyes. We weren't running away from anything. Even if sometimes we had to discuss a discussion or an argument we had that morning.

(Bryan): But we just came back with a chance to regroup. And sometimes she was frustrated and she would just hand me the kids and she would leave, or I was coming in late and the kids are already in bed. But we always really did like we call something that we're working towards is teaching people is this 10 minute pause. But we did the 15 minute couch time. So it's a same version, 10 minute pause. You step away in the middle of a discussion, or you step away in the middle of an argument and just take 10 minutes and actually pause without forgetting that you need to go back and deal with it.

(Natalie): Right. And that was something, you know, and we've talked before about internal and external processing. And I'm an internal processor, Bryan's an external. And so I need time.

(Bryan): Yeah.

(Natalie): But, you know, I don't want to give time. You know, I. That could be three weeks from now for all. You know. Right. Setting a definitive time. And for us, I think it was 30 minutes, if I remember right. And there's times now like as I've grown and I've. And things don't feel. I don't know, I've matured. Let's just say that, yeah, in certain things I've matured. I won't say I have arrived, but I've matured. And so the, the.

(Natalie): What do you call it? The. The turnaround time.

(Bryan): Yeah.

(Natalie): Is I think, correct me if I'm wrong, I think way less than 30 minutes for the most part.

(Bryan): Yeah. And. Yeah. And then it depends on.

(Natalie): Maybe it depends on who.

(Bryan): Well, no, I think if it's me or if it's like Katie or Jeremy and you're really frustrated or even with the kids, even with like a really good friends, Nate and Katrina, if there's a frustration or something, it's going to be like, I just need to break and just give me a few minutes and you're gonna go back to it 100.

(Natalie): Well, and that's the thing too. This just popped in my head again. What you value, what's important to you, you place value and intention on. And those relationships are incredibly important to me. So I'm not gonna let it slide. I've learned.

(Bryan): Yeah.

(Natalie): That those relationships are incredibly important to.

(Bryan): Me and you have to fight for them.

(Natalie): You have to fight for them. And I'm not going to Allow space and distance to get in the way of that.

(Bryan): Yeah.

(Natalie): Does that make sense?

(Bryan): Yeah, absolutely. And, and like for us, I would say that there's been times where it depends on your, your I, I get this way here, Let me explain is that you're. Externally, if something bothers you, like that has nothing to do with us.

(Natalie): Right.

(Bryan): But then I do something that pisses you off, the condition in which we work it out will change based on how that other thing was, was already nagging you. Right. Like your emotions were already hot. Then we got to a discussion and then you're extra hot. And sometimes it gets to the place where it's not irrational, but you're just like, this wasn't like, I missed them. I was late for five minutes, by five minutes or something like that. And it goes from a DEFCON 5 or 4 to DEFCON 1 just like that.

(Natalie): Or it wasn't even you being late. It was a comment of, I don't know why you're letting this bother you.

(Bryan): Yeah, that one is my, my go to.

(Natalie): Like, what do you need for me right now? Not to say that.

(Bryan): Yeah. But I think now for sure, our conversations and our conflict is so much more short lived for the most part. I'm sure there's probably examples where you've been pissed and it's taken like an hour and a half or two or three hours to be like, just to come down.

(Natalie): Right.

(Bryan): And sometimes that's me, sometimes it's situational and you're already heated. Not just because life is intense. Like, we got a lot going on in our life and so life is intense. And you're like, I know, I know. I think you know yourself well enough to know that if I go back now, this is not going to be good for either of us and I'm not ready for it and I need a timeout. And so you know that now, like, hey, I need more time. And you'll just say, hey, I just need a little bit more time. Like, okay, I know now that if you don't come back in that 45 minutes and you come to me and say, hey, I want, for, I want more time. I don't press me like, no, let's deal with this now.

(Natalie): Right?

(Bryan): Because I'm very much, if we're gonna have conflict, I want to do it. I want to deal with it now.

(Natalie): Well, and that brings me to this thought. We've come to a place, unless we're being silly because we are competitive with each other. Well, I'm competitive with you. I'M playing a game.

(Bryan): I am super glad that you clarified that because so oftentimes apparently I was competing in things that I didn't know I was competing in.

(Natalie): That's right. And so we, we have an understanding.

(Bryan): I like how you say this other.

(Natalie): It's not about, it's not about one upping you. It's not about winning. It's not about some victorious stance because I know at the end of the day like conflic. There's, there's. I mean you can have a win win and that's when you're both respectfully.

(Bryan): Yeah.

(Natalie): Having a discussion. You can disagree but I'm not name calling and, and whatever else. And I say I'm not name calling because of the two of us I'd be the one to name call. So I know that about myself. But that French side, it is that French side. It's not, it's not about putting the stake and the flag in the ground of. I have beat you to this.

(Bryan): Right. Yeah.

(Natalie): It's about at the end of, of our resolving and like coming together even to talk about what drifting looks like. And like we said, you know, nowadays it's, it's camouflaged in busyness, it's camouflaged in decompressing or. I've had a really hard day. Self care and we are like advocates for self care. Don't, don't misunderstand within reason and balance. Sometimes my scrolling on the phone at night is not because I'm self caring, it's because I'm disconnecting.

(Bryan): Yeah. Right.

(Natalie): Right. And so these are like things to be aware of. But it's not about having gained some prize at the end of it. Right. We both win in a resolve when we both are mutually respectful of each other and, and want to understand the other's position.

(Bryan): Yeah. The goal. The goal and to avoid marriage drift is like we've got the 15 minute pause to communicate, to connect is to actually understand each other, not have victory. And so often in our, our relationship it was my way or the highway and so I didn't really care if you understood. I just wanted to be the one that was winning.

(Natalie): Like the iron fist, you mean?

(Bryan): Yeah. I wasn't so iron like the iron.

(Natalie): Hammer or whatever, just kind of nailing your.

(Bryan): Just like, no, this is what we're going to do. This is how. Because I said so and blah blah, blah. And I was a bit of a bullheaded kind of. I'm still bullheaded but I'm much more wise with my bullheadedness But. But I'm. I'm looking now to understand why you are the way you are. The why. The way you say the things that you say. The. And so now I know your heart and your behavior. And then the why you tick a certain way.

(Bryan): And so we can come to an understanding and not just beat each other up. And. And. And it. One of us looking for. Well, I won this argument.

(Natalie): Right.

(Bryan): Right. Which when you try and win the argument, only bring. Only divides you, and you end up drifting even further apart.

(Natalie): 100. Then the score keeping comes.

(Bryan): You were so good at the score keeping. The.

(Natalie): Bringing up the past. Which I have.

(Bryan): Oh, my goodness.

(Natalie): They say elephants never forget anything. I think sometimes Natalie doesn't.

(Bryan): Natalie does not forget a bloody thing.

(Natalie): Bringing up things in the past, I can draw on old. Just.

(Bryan): Oh, yeah. And I don't even remember what we discussed or argued about three weeks ago. And you were like, well, this one time in 1987 when I. We weren't even together. You did this. I'm like, what the.

(Natalie): Exactly. Right. And. Which is not healthy. So if I, like. I want to come to a point where if I'm looking back on how things were, it's to see how far God's brought us. Not to throw it in your face about how horrible.

(Bryan): Well, let's just be honest.

(Natalie): Or I was.

(Bryan): I know I gave you lots to work with.

(Natalie): Like, it goes both ways.

(Bryan): Yeah, you always say that, but I was. And Natalie's about to deny what I'm going to say. I was 70%, if not 80 to 85% of the issue in the first 400. I was 85% of the problem in the first five years of marriage. Easily. Easily. There's no next 20.

(Natalie): I'm 85 of the problem.

(Bryan): I didn't want to say that. I did. I wanted you to admit to. I mean, that's not what I mean at all.

(Natalie): But, you know, if your spouse loses, you both lose.

(Bryan): That's right. And this is what. That's right. So. So we have this written down. If your spouse loses, you both lose.

(Natalie): That's right. You're on that. Well, and that was one of the things, too. I forgot. And here's where good leadership. As far as, like, you spending time with the Lord, me spending time with the Lord, you leading our family strong. We just kind of fell by the wayside. And there were no more solutions. There were just accusations that were slinging.

(Bryan): Back and forth and there was no Correct. There was no coming to any agreement on anything. And then and then we started to shut down and we weren't talking to each other.

(Natalie): Right. And. And again, like, that was like, that's drastic. But that's not. If we're not careful, we can slip so easily back into. Or we're roommates rather than lovers. Right.

(Bryan): Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It's always fun thinking back. Fun. Fun might not be the right word, but interesting. Thinking back to where we were when we first got married, to our conflict resolution, to where we are right now. Right. And so, like, even we. I just wanted to. To share this. I said you already talked about, but unhealthy conflict is like keeping score, keeping up, bringing up the past, stonewalling things, Silent treatment. Silent treatment, all that stuff. But healthy conflict is respect.

(Bryan): You're staying in the moment that you're in. In the present for the thing that you're discussing right now, not what's in the past. And you're actually trying to find solutions.

(Natalie): That's right. And we have to say this. You have to own your part.

(Bryan): Yep. Be accountable.

(Natalie): Disconnect. There are two people responsible for that disconnect.

(Bryan): Yeah.

(Natalie): It's not just all in one. Like, I know that you are so graciously taking the majority of the onus, but we're both 100% responsible for our. Our part.

(Bryan): You were. You were 100% of the 15% problem that you were, and I was 100% responsible for the 85%.

(Natalie): Wasn't there something we talked about, Logistics.

(Bryan): No. We're not even going to get there. Just let me, let me have one at least for this episode. Then you can try and dissuade everyone on the next one. But, and here's the thing is, like, we want to. We want to end with this, is that conflict isn't the enemy. The silence is.

(Natalie): Yeah.

(Bryan): And it could be that you're not completely having into the silent treatment, but you are into. I'm not going to deal with this problem. I'm not going to bring this up. I don't want to talk about this. Because it's either explosive, it doesn't get to resolution. It's frustrating. And you never end up getting anywhere where there's a resolution to that. That particular problem.

(Natalie): Or as you're passing each other in the hallway, in the bus, in the just life.

(Bryan): Right.

(Natalie): You're not even aware that there's a drift that's happened until. Until oftentimes it's too late.

(Bryan): Yep. Absolutely. And so I want you, if you're listening to this, to do two things. I want you to practice the 10 minute pause this week. If you're in the middle of something that's heated and you're not getting anywhere, I want you to just pause, take a minute, think about it, pray about it, and listen to music. Reframe it. Different perspective. Call someone that you trusted in the middle of it, but always come back to the conversation. 10, 15 minutes at least communicate with them. Hey, I just need 10 minutes because this is getting out of hand.

(Natalie): Well, then we listen to understand not to respond.

(Bryan): We listen to understand not to respond. Thank you. That is not my easiest thing. And then this is what we want you to do. We want you to comment or share a phrase on our social media or email. What is something that you do that actually you use to start a really tough conversation? We would love to hear what they have them. So you can do that on Instagram, you can do that on email. And if you like this podcast, please tell us that you like us. Show us that you like it. It means a lot when you share it and let you let people know about Amplified Marriage.

(Bryan): You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook. If you disagree with something we said, want to add to something that we said. You have a question or anything you'd like to discuss, you can email us at Gmail. And again, Amplified marriage. Amplified marriage gmail.com I got excited. I didn't finish my thought. And if you just want to connect with us over Instagram, I would love to hear from you. And. And you hear us say this at the end of every episode.

(Bryan): We believe that your marriage can be reset, refreshed, recharged and restored. Thanks so much for listening.

(Natalie): Talk to you soon.

(Bryan): Sa.