Season 4 Ep. 2 // “The Power of Words: Speaking Life Instead of Tearing Down”

(Bryan): Well, today is going to be a bit more of a somber episode as we are just a couple days from a very prominent Christian man. Charlie Kirk passed away. He was assassinated in Utah. And the last few days have actually yielded a lot of conversations with friends and family and just some of the differences of opinion, and it's something that Natalie and I have talked about on the podcast a lot, is just about how to disagree. Well, how to have conflict.
 (Bryan): And Charlie Kirk was someone who was not afraid of conflict, was not afraid of standing up for what he believed in, but also was someone who loved deeply. And I think that in his. In his life, there is a few things that we can. Can pull from that, just as people that I really do want to discuss today. And we're going to start this episode just a little bit differently, like we already are. But we're going to go into what does the Bible actually talk to us about?
 (Bryan): About having conflict, about having to disagree with each other in relationships. And this is going to be we're a marriage podcast, but this one's going to be more about how should we, as people actually deal with each other when it comes to difference of opinion, difference of ideals, difference of religion. And so we're not going to go deep into some other religions or other beliefs or anything like that, but we are going to say is, this is what the Bible says about dealing and having conflict. And so we just want to start at that place right there.
 (Bryan): Well, welcome to another episode of Amplified Marriage. I'm Brian.
 (Natalie): I'm Natalie.
 (Bryan): And we're not going to do our normal start. No, this is a bit of a. An outlier from what we would usually do as an episode. But I was saying to Natalie, I think it was yesterday morning, just the day after, because he. He was shot on. On Wednesday, and I think I said on. On Thursday morning. You know, every year there's like lists of. Of celebrities and people that pass away that are famous or. And for what. I'm not usually very easily moved by that kind of stuff.
 (Bryan): They're entertainers. Some of them have contributed things to the world. But there's something about. I've been watching Charlie Kirk for a long time and over, just like anything else in social media, your character will begin to show as soon as you start to feel the pressure. And I will say that Charlie's character over the last five years, in my opinion, has really shown the type of man that he is. He has fought for traditional Christian values. He fought for, in politics. He fought for people.
 (Bryan): He fought for the rights of every people, he actually, on many different occasions, has said, regardless of whether or not I agree with you, you treat people kindly. And that was one of the messages that he had. He said even though people opposed him and stood against him and. And hurled insults and things, he would always stand tall, stand firm, and still always maintain that Christ died for them and that they need.
 (Bryan): We need to treat them kindly. Even if they disagree.
 (Natalie): Yeah.
 (Bryan): Even if their lifestyle shows something different.
 (Natalie): You know, one of the things. And I've not, you know, seen a ton of his work, I have seen lots, but one thing that stands out to me is his willingness to open a conversation.
 Right.
 (Natalie): And, you know, I look at him at myself, and, you know, am I willing to open hard conversations of opposing views? And, you know, I want to say I am really good at it. The reality is, no, like, I don't think, you know, I. I know my stance and my faith, but to. To even have a conversation. Right. And he debates and stuff, and I just appreciate his ability to do that and do that with. With grace.
 Right.
 (Bryan): And, you know, I would say, like, and. And on. On, even on that, like, his ability to disagree with people, but also still love and respect other people, even if you disagreed, is definitely an example to people in general.
 Right.
 (Natalie): And like, here's the thing. People showed up, right.
 (Bryan): And wanted to listen.
 Right.
 (Natalie): Like at the university in Utah, there was 3,000 people there.
 Yeah.
 Right.
 (Natalie): So people showed up to hear what he had to say. And it's just.
 (Bryan): It's sad.
 (Natalie): Just can't even believe it.
 (Bryan): But what we want to talk about today is that there's. Even from. If you dig into Charlie's life and the. The beliefs that he had, there's some things that Natalie and I believe that are. And I honestly, we've probably taught. We have. I pulled some of this message or this podcast content today from stuff that we've already talked about written, and I kind of just threw it into a. A mish. Not a mishmash, but like, in a.
 (Bryan): This is what the Bible says about how we actually deal with conflict. And I want to say this is not just about marriage. This will be about marriage, but this is about how we treat our friends, how we treat those that oppose us, how we treat those that have different views than us, different religions, different colors, all that stuff.
 (Natalie): Remember the old saying, we agree to disagree?
 Yep.
 (Natalie): And then we could move forward in that. And I think society needs to learn how to do that.
 (Bryan): We need to go back to being able to. To agree to disagree 100 right. And so the first thing that we want to talk about this is the Bible says and says in Ephesians 5, 21, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. The translation for that is we need to treat each other with respect even in the middle of an argument when, when your blood pressure is just going through the roof. And so we, we need to. This is what it says. We love first, even when it's hard.
 (Natalie): Yeah.
 Right.
 (Bryan): And that's what the Bible says. The Bible teaches us to love first even when it's hard. So that means that when me and my brother in law disagree, me and my brother disagree. Me and really good friends, we disagree. When me, my wife disagree, I am still, I still love and care for them more than the, the belief that they hold.
 Right.
 Right.
 (Bryan): Because honestly, so often the way, the way cultures frame this is that if we disagree, we can't be friends. I got friends that are on all different ranges of life that are in opposition to some of my core beliefs as a person. I still love them.
 Right.
 Right.
 (Bryan): And so I can love people even if I. And it's not, it's not easy all the time. And it's something that I can only do because God's given me the strength to do that. Because there's some people that are really hard to love in that way.
 Yeah.
 (Bryan): Sometimes, if we're honest, your spouse might be really hard to love. Your friend might be just because of that belief, not because you don't love them, but because we have this really innate desire to be right.
 (Natalie): Yeah.
 (Bryan): Like, I love being right.
 (Natalie): And like, at what cost?
 (Bryan): But that's the thing is at what cost are you willing to be right? And so I think that this is what the Bible says, that we submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. That means we love Christ so much that we're willing to submit, to not submit in a way where we're bending our knee to the belief or to the thing that we disagree with. But we're, we're saying to him, hey, I care about you more than I care about me being right. I care more about.
 (Bryan): I want to remain in relationship with you. And that, that matters more than whether or not I make you believe what I believe or I stand for the same thing.
 (Natalie): That's right.
 Right.
 (Natalie): And. And it can be done in a civil and calm way.
 (Bryan): Yeah, it can. Me and Natalie have had two types of arguments in her life. The really, really, really intense ones with some heated French language from you.
 (Natalie): Yeah.
 (Bryan): And me and my poor English from me and then some other ones that were probably more important than the other ones. But we've been able to calmly just hear each other out and be like.
 (Natalie): Oh, man, 100% and then celebrate the win.
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): That, like, I mean, that shows growth, right?
 (Bryan): Yeah, absolutely.
 (Natalie): That we're not just stuck in our patterns of, you know, I am who I am.
 Right, Right.
 (Natalie): And growth can happen, change can happen, transformation can happen.
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): And us being able to even utilize our own tools in communicating with each other when we disagree.
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): I think is a win to celebrate.
 (Bryan): Yeah, absolutely. So love first, even when it's hard, then realizing that pride is. Is the gasoline. Humility is the water. I love this. We've talked about humility and being accountable, which kind of leads into the next ones here. But this is what James 4. 6 is. It reminds us that God gives grace to the humble.
 Right.
 (Bryan): And he oppresses the proud. That's what that scripture says. Saying I was wrong doesn't make you weak. It keeps the relationship whole.
 (Natalie): I mean, what could be accomplished if we just took a hard look at our own selves?
 Right.
 (Natalie): And owned our stuff, Owned our right. What's the word? Isms, I guess.
 (Bryan): Idiosyncrasies, personalities.
 Right.
 (Natalie): How much could be accomplished if.
 Right.
 (Natalie): I wasn't so hell bent on dying on a hill just so that you could say, you're right. Now, there's times where I've been really petty and have. Have really pushed for that. That's not right.
 No.
 (Natalie): You know, if. If we're in the same. You know, we're in the same lane, pushing towards the same goal.
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): Does that move me ahead in my.
 (Bryan): Obstinate or did you put up a wall of something in between you and your spouse?
 (Natalie): That's ammo. Now I'm gonna stick it to you every time. Do you know what I mean? Like.
 Right.
 (Natalie): What does that gain?
 (Bryan): Yeah, that's right. And humility means that you can. Well, here, here, humility mixed with a healthy self identity of who you are and whose you are. Like, I'm Christ. If you have humility, you can actually back down from an argument and be like, you know what?
 I don't.
 (Bryan): It doesn't matter to me that I'm right or wrong. I just. I don't want to push this further because you're more valuable to me.
 Right.
 (Bryan): Something that Natalie and I say, and in marriage or sorry, in leadership all the time, is we care more for the person than we do for the position.
 (Natalie): Yeah.
 (Bryan): And so the attitude is very much for us is that we would. We care more about who that person is, the things that they're going through, the struggles that they may be having. Then whether or not you showed up on a Sunday and you served on the worship team or in the tech.
 (Natalie): Team or whether or not you were right.
 (Bryan): Yeah. Whether or not you were right or whatever that happens to maybe is that we care more about the person than we do about the. The thing that's going on. And that includes difference of opinions, difference of views. Right. Like, and so we know that love is love first. When hard pride is.
 (Natalie): Pride's gonna kill.
 (Bryan): Pride will choke your relationship.
 (Natalie): 100.
 (Bryan): Yeah, absolutely. But the truth needs love. And that's right. Ephesians 4:15 says, this tells us to speak the truth in love. If you speak the truth without love.
 (Natalie): It'S like scripture likens it to a clanging symbol or clashing.
 Right.
 (Bryan): Well, do you know those people that say, oh, I'm doing this because I love you, but they don't. They're doing it. They're. Or they said, how do they start their conversation? I don't mean to offend you, but they're about to be harsh and they're about to be ignorant because they're doing it because they want to be right. And they're not doing it because they love you. They're doing it because they want to be right.
 (Bryan): So if you love people without truth, you. You're actually just kind of a faker, right?
 (Natalie): Yeah.
 (Bryan): And I can put on a mask of loving person, but I.
 Right.
 (Bryan): Like, and you can love. Put on the mask for only so long in a relationship before that actually shows, obviously.
 (Natalie): Yes. But you. I have learned that, yes, we're. We're called to speak the truth in love.
 Right.
 (Natalie): We're not called to shy away from having conversations. But my truth about how I think you're behaving is most of the time not 100% accurate. So I've learned in myself. Is it actually true? So if I'm speaking, I'm speaking the truth to you, and at the end of the day, is it actually true or am I just wanting to undercut.
 (Bryan): You or be right under the.
 (Natalie): Under the guise of I'm just speaking truth.
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): It's like you were so cruel usually. Do you know, Like, I could be so cruel, but then deflecting from it and justifying it. But, but, but it's true.
 (Bryan): Yes. Because I think when you're, when you're responding that way, you're responding out of a need for justification or validation. Or some kind of like, I. I'm right in here. And so this makes me feel good at the expense of the other person.
 Right.
 (Bryan): And you're not really thinking it through. You're just.
 No.
 (Natalie): So just because it might be true in my own head doesn't make it true.
 (Bryan): Right, Absolutely right.
 (Natalie): And. And I. I really have had to learn that instead of just spouting off everything that comes to my mind without actually thinking it through and filtering and, like, having a thoughtful answer, I've had to learn how to do that instead of just spouting off, you know, this, that, or the other and then calling it true.
 Yeah.
 Right.
 (Bryan): So truth needs love. And then this is the one that kind of follows up with all of these. Is that Proverbs 15, verse 1 says, A gentle answer turns away wrath. And what I love about this one is essentially, this is the shut up Scripture, is that sometimes you just need to shut up and you need to walk away. And sometimes you don't need to say the thing that's on your mind. Sometimes the best thing you can do is just walk away before you open your mouth and actually say something that is hurtful to the other person.
 Right.
 (Bryan): And I'm guilty of not walking away. And I've learned to walk away over the years. I'm still not always great. Sometimes I'm just ready to pick a fight, and I'm just, all right, I'm going to say this thing even. And this is the thing. When you become a little more emotionally intelligent as you get older and a little bit more, you're.
 (Natalie): You're start to deal with stuff.
 (Bryan): Yeah, you start to deal with some things. You realize that, you know, there's sometimes when I was a kid, I would just say things because I'm like, oh, I'm just gonna say it now. I know that if. If I proceed, just like a holy spirit gives me a check. He's like, brian, if you keep going, this is what's going to be said. And this is what the aftermath of this could be. This. If you go down this road, it's like the Lord muzzles you or is trying to muzzle you. And it's your choice in that moment to be like, okay, I'm gonna stop, come back and maybe talk about this later. But right now, I just need to shut it.
 (Natalie): And can we say that not every time someone says, hey, like, we're just gonna. We're just gonna change the subject and, like, not talk about it.
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): You know, I think we just need to take a pause, not all the time. Sometimes it's just because they don't want to hear what you have to say and they just want to shut you down. But sometimes there's just an element of, what. What is this going to. What's this going to prove?
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): At the end of it.
 Yeah.
 Right.
 (Natalie): And if I'm walking away going, listen, I. We don't agree. I. I cannot. I cannot come to terms with accepting what you're saying and. And agreeing with it. I can understand some of the points that you've made, but we're not going to see eye to eye on this and. And essentially walk away from the conversation.
 (Bryan): But not the person.
 (Natalie): Not, not necessarily physically walk away from the person, but if you, if you are thoughtful in. Hey, this is. This is a conversation that's not going anywhere. And I've had those. Listen, we're not. We're going around the circle.
 Yeah.
 Right.
 (Natalie): We need to. We're just not going to be talking about this anymore. Like, I've said what I had to say. Yeah, I've heard what you had to say. This is where this will lie, Right. For now.
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): Doesn't mean that the other person is not wanting to hear you or, you know how our thoughts go to, like, well, they're just angry or they're just this or there we start spouting labels as to justify why they don't want to continue in the conversation. Sometimes, you know, Scripture is very clear. Don't cast pearls before swine. What does that mean? That means there are times when, when. When we're bringing our thoughts forward and bringing things, and it's essentially like on, well, good soil, where the other person is like, you know what? Like, I never thought of it like that.
 Yeah.
 (Bryan): And other times it's on.
 (Natalie): Other times it just falls on rocks.
 Right.
 (Bryan): On fallow ground.
 (Natalie): So, you know, I'm not calling an opposing person swine. Hear me out.
 Right.
 (Natalie): But it's the idea of m. What is the end goal that I have with this person that I am having a disagreement with? Do I value them as number one, a human being, or do I value my own thoughts and opinions on a matter more?
 Right.
 (Bryan): And that's the truth.
 Right.
 (Bryan): And so timing is everything. Gentle answer turns away wrath. And then this is. This is. The. The one is forgive. Like Jesus. Colossians 3:13 says, we forgive like Christ forgave us. That means no holding grudges. I'll forgive you. Or no, I'll forgive you, but I'll never forget. Here's the thing about this Is that when you forgive someone, depending on the action, you need to remember some of the things and you may not trust them again, but you've definitely forgiven them.
 (Natalie): Like Erica Kirk and her children are never going to forget.
 (Bryan): Never forget. They may forgive, but they're. They're never going to forget what happened.
 (Natalie): And here's the thing. Forgiveness is. So that is for you.
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): It's for the person who is forgiving.
 Right.
 (Natalie): It's for. It's so that bitterness and anger and resentment don't take root in your heart.
 Right.
 (Bryan): And. And your marriage and your relationships and your friendships and your co workers and your life can't survive without God's grace. Can't survive without just being gracious to people.
 (Natalie): That's right.
 Right.
 (Bryan): And so we need to forgive like Jesus. We need to do this more often. We need to not hold grudges, not be ang. Be bitter. Well, and easier said than done. I get it.
 Well, yeah.
 (Natalie): And it's a process and it's a journey.
 Right.
 (Natalie): And I don't think there's a timeline on it. It's like, oh, the, the incident happened. Well, they should just forgive. Move on.
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): You know, or it's been a year, it's been five years, it's been 10 years. Just move on.
 Right.
 (Natalie): You know, like, it doesn't work like that.
 Right.
 (Bryan): Yeah, I agree. And so even as we. We kind of just something. The few things that. How do we. We're. We're trying to. To form this in a way that is not going to be disrespectful. But there's a few things from Charlie Kirk's life that he actually stood for that actually parallel these scriptures that we were just talking about, about treating people with respect and honor. And one of them, the very first one, is dehumanization is deadly.
 (Bryan): And I have. We have coached a lot of couples over the years and we've had a few where the type of speech that they had for each other was bordering on complete disrespect, which leads you down the road. So you see, we're seeing a lot of stuff online right now just of like saying about him, good riddance. I'm glad he's gone.
 (Natalie): It's gross.
 (Bryan): That's heartbreaking. Regardless of what side that you're on. So when we start treating people like their enemies instead of. And this is something he said, but we, instead of being image bearers of God, we lose something for ourselves. And if you do this in your relationships, in your marriage, the same thing happens when you Say those words. And you've. We've had a whole podcast on this one thing.
 (Bryan): You always, you never. Instead of starting with, hey, this hurts me with. And so you reduce your spouse to a problem. So what we're seeing in culture now is we're reducing other person people's views to enemies instead of just someone who happens to be disagreeing. That those people also carry the image of God. And so that we are required as Christians to love them even doesn't mean we trust them, doesn't mean we have to hang around them, but we do have to show them the love of God and respect and, and those types of things.
 (Bryan): But they are not a problem. They're still people 100 and so in relationships, we can get to that place. And I would say that this is probably more of a marriage thing than maybe a really good friend thing or close friends, but a marriage thing where our language can devolve into these things where you say that you, you always do this. And then when you say that, that always language, that's an absolute and there's no other way around it. You do that every. So every time you say, if you ever said to me you never take out the garbage. Well, that's not true.
 (Bryan): I took out the garbage last week. I just didn't do it today. And I missed one time last month. And so you're, you're looking at me differently as. And it can become more of a. Your problem and less of my partner in relationship.
 Right.
 (Bryan): Makes sense.
 (Natalie): Yeah.
 Right.
 (Bryan): And. And we, we can take that back to we love even when it's hard.
 Right?
 (Bryan): We love even when it's hard. That means we love people even when they're the worst. And again, we don't have to have relationships or stay with toxic friends. We don't have to do those things that love doesn't mean staying and, and taking a beating for the whole, your whole life just because we're called to love them. And so we say dehumanization or disrespect in a marriage can be absolutely debilitating. And then we have like, words have weight.
 (Natalie): And like, this one's huge for me because, you know, the book of James talks about the power of the tongue, right? And you know, it likens it to a venomous snake. It can just lash out. And being somebody who, who knows that personally about myself, words have weight. Everything that you put out there, that's why, you know, the, the word talks about renewing our minds. And that's because what's in our minds goes into our hearts, what's in our hearts comes out.
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): And so if I'm not being diligent, then the things that are coming out of my mouth are going to be the things I'm absorbing. And if my filter is not there, meaning my plum line, the word of God isn't there, what kind of devastation. You know, words have the power to kill or to bring life.
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): And so we need to be really.
 (Bryan): Careful with how we speak to each other.
 (Natalie): With how we speak to each other and you know, and how we posture ourselves in the midst of tragedies.
 Right.
 (Natalie): That you know, some of the videos that are going around are just so disheartening because at the end of the day, this is a, this is a somebody's son. He's a husband, he's a father.
 Yeah.
 (Bryan): He's a friend.
 (Natalie): He's a friend.
 Right.
 (Natalie): He's somebody's uncle.
 Yeah.
 (Bryan): And so he's a human being regardless.
 (Natalie): Regardless of anything else.
 And you're.
 (Bryan): And the things that you say really do matter. And so then we look at, we're moving down to Romans, chapter 12, verse 5. It says forgiveness versus gloating. Rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep. We don't celebrate when someone falls, even if we disagree with them. It's this, it's the same.
 (Natalie): It's a bizarre ideology.
 (Bryan): It is a bizarre ideology. And it's also like we're right now, we're in the middle of seeing the extreme lack of character in people that are potentially celebrating the death of this man. But we also are seeing like, and how this is the extreme. If someone died, we're celebrating, I'm talking like, even, like things that we're in marriages and we're at that place where when your friend or your wife makes a mistake instead of, of raising them.
 (Natalie): You'Re happy about it.
 (Bryan): You're happy. Oh, like, oh man, I knew you were going to do that. Hahaha. Good on you.
 Right.
 (Natalie): Or, or when there's somebody that falls or you know, falls into sin somehow, that we're celebrating the fact that they did that.
 (Bryan): It's right.
 (Natalie): We need to do better.
 (Bryan): And yet you, you forgive, you restore, you move forward and you, you choose.
 (Natalie): To love and you don't gloat over somebody else's difficulties.
 No.
 (Bryan): Should never look at someone else and be like, celebrate their failures.
 (Natalie): We have all sinned.
 Yeah.
 (Bryan): And fallen short. Absolutely.
 (Natalie): So if you think you haven't, you have.
 Right, right.
 (Bryan): And so all of these are just even what we talked about just with the scripture and, and those, those five things is forgiving. And this last one is amazing. His life is short. Reconcile quickly. What did Jesus say J in Colossians 3:13. Forgive like Christ forgave you. We should be reconciling as much as we can as soon as we can and when we can. And Ephesians 4:26 warns us not to let the sun go down on our anger.
 (Bryan): Unresolved conflict is a ticking time bomb. We've talked about this. Marriage gets stronger when we actually reconcile. It gets weaker when we let it fester.
 Right.
 (Natalie): And so, and so even if you're, you're in a place where, you know, it feels like it's just one disagreement after another, Right?
 Yep.
 (Natalie): Really encourage you to take a moment to come together and just pray because life is short.
 (Bryan): Life is short.
 (Natalie): Look, look at all around. Life is short. You do not know when your time is up.
 Yep.
 (Natalie): And so make a point of recalibrating.
 Right.
 (Natalie): What matters? What is your goal? What mountain have you made out of? A mole hill, so to speak? Where do you need does a toilet to lay down your pride?
 Right.
 (Natalie): I think we need to.
 Re.
 (Natalie): Take time to reevaluate what's important to you.
 (Bryan): Yeah, absolutely. So the way that here's six things that we kind of just, just for this episode kind of put into just six things. I'm just going to go through them really quick. Pause and pray. You've heard us talk about the 15 minute, the half an hour, the 45 minute break. Hit the brakes in the middle of an argument. Just slam on those breaks and say to your spouse, hey, I just need a minute. Go pray.
 (Bryan): Take a breather. Ask God for humility. Ask God for the right words. Ask God for the next thing you need to say. Take a bath, take a shower, go out and go for a short walk. But just take a pause and, and take a break. And you've already heard this say this is number two is you say I instead of you always or you never and use that really strong, absolute, hey, I feel hurt when you do this thing. Or I feel hurt when you say that.
 (Natalie): Yeah.
 (Bryan): That hurts my feelings. You can actually say that. Land that. That's way better than you always or you never do this. That. That just doesn't work exactly Right.
 (Natalie): I feel unheard when I'm talking.
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): And the attentions are everywhere but on what I'm actually saying.
 (Bryan): And if you were to say you never listened to me, I'd be like.
 (Natalie): Right, you'll Find when you don't use absolutes, you'll probably get a lot further.
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): In, in your conversations.
 Way more.
 (Bryan): Number three is you listen to understand, not to respond.
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): And that's so hard because all of us have a lot we could. A lot that we want to say.
 Yeah.
 Right.
 (Bryan): And, and I think even looked was that that saying he said, you know, walk a mile, another person's shoes is. You can ask why does this matter to you so much? Because there's so many things in our relationship too that really, really matter to you. And I don't understand why.
 (Natalie): Yeah, that's true.
 Right.
 (Natalie): Because I'm just wired different.
 Yeah.
 (Bryan): And so then I have to ask the question. This is really important to you. I don't, I don't, I don't understand it. Help me, help me understand.
 (Natalie): Yeah.
 Right.
 (Bryan): Like, and so that, that one's listen to actually understand. Was it, was it. Most people listen with the intent to respond, not to understand.
 (Natalie): And there's times where I will give my reasoning for why it's so important. You still don't get it. At the end of the day, do you value me enough to say because it matters to you.
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): I might not understand. I still don't understand. But I'm gonna make an effort because it matters to me. Because you matter to me.
 Yep.
 (Bryan): And then here's the other thing is we say this all the time. Take accountability for your actions. But this is like own your own slice of the piece. Because even, Even if you're 5% wrong or 10% wrong, you have to own the fact that you were 10% wrong.
 (Natalie): Yeah.
 (Bryan): If there was a percentage to be putting on incorrectness or not correctness. You have to own your side no matter what. This is one of the things we start with every couple. You need to be accountable for your actions, for your words, the things that you say.
 (Natalie): Yes.
 Right.
 (Bryan): And take ownership for those things and don't wait to be. For the other person to be perfect to take ownership.
 (Natalie): Which I think if you're self reflecting and you're doing some introspective work, then in when we're disagreeing, I know myself.
 Well.
 (Natalie): Instead of just letting it go, I can take that, oh, what's the word Inventory of my part and I can at least come forth with that.
 Yeah.
 (Natalie): Hey, like we're not getting anywhere. I could have responded better.
 (Bryan): And immediately the atmosphere will shift the atmosphere. We've done this for each other numerous times.
 Right.
 (Natalie): So like if, if it's, if you find that it's. It's a struggle and, you know, the other person is just struggling.
 Yeah.
 (Bryan): Then you're breaking down the walls first.
 (Natalie): Take inventory.
 Right.
 (Natalie): Like I'm not so digging my heels in. Dead set. You know, I'm gonna sit here till he gets my point. Be the bigger person in the moment.
 Right.
 (Natalie): And there's times where you've had to be the bigger person and there's times where I've had to be the bigger person. It's not that, you know, oh, we're just going to sweep it under the rug. No, we're going to talk about it. But how we talk about it matters.
 (Bryan): Yeah, absolutely.
 (Natalie): And if I'm approaching it from, hey, here's what I contributed.
 Right.
 (Bryan): So you own your slice of the pie. And just remember what we've been talking all the way through this is that we need to forgive first. We don't wait for the other person to forget. You know, this is. This is the surest way in your relationship to put up a wall or a barrier. And we hear this so often. Well, I'm doing lots of. Of like me things and, and being a better person, but I don't see them doing anything. It doesn't matter what they're doing.
 Yeah.
 (Bryan): And so I'm gonna go. I'm not gonna forgive them. They'll. Till they forgive me. Oh, so the wall that you've put up is. Is no different than their wall that they've put up. And now you're not going to take responsibility and own your stuff and actually go ask for forgiveness for the things that you've done for us. So be the first to forgive. What does the Bible say? To outdo each other and showing honor.
 Yeah.
 Right.
 (Bryan): I can outdo my wife by being. Apologizes first. It serves first. It loves first. And I want her to do the same for me. But I. It's really hard.
 (Natalie): Contingent on.
 (Bryan): It's not contingent on whether or not she does it for me first. And that is a hard. That's a hard thing. Well, and also to. To just serve without expecting. Expecting. Yeah. Like give without expect. Expectation. I'm gonna get anything back. So forgive first. And the next one is. Remember your covenant. If you are.
 I've got.
 (Natalie): You're on the same team.
 Yep.
 (Bryan): You're not opponents.
 Right.
 (Natalie): Your spouse is not your enemy.
 Yeah.
 (Bryan): And. And don't treat them like the enemy. They're not the enemy of your budget. They're not the enemy of your. Your. Your job. They're not the enemy of your. Your. Your image. They're not enemy. They're actually there to help you and, and build and be in the same lane, going in the same direction, fighting for the same things, fighting for the. The future that you have. Remember your covenant that you made and that you are together, that you, that your spouse isn't the problem, that you guys are a team.
 (Natalie): That's right.
 (Bryan): Anything else you want to add to that?
 (Natalie): No, I think.
 Right.
 (Bryan): We know this one is a little bit different, but we just wanted to like, these are just some biblical examples of how God has asked us. And if you're not a Christian, you're listening to this and you don't believe in the Bible and don't believe in Jesus, I hope that through this podcast or through the experience of what's happening with, with Charlie Kirk and you can see that at least get you thinking, get you thinking about Jesus because he was a gospel centered man. But even what you're hearing here today, this is God. God wants us to live a better way.
 (Bryan): There's a better way to live our lives. If we're just mired in anger and frustration and bitterness and we hate other people. God's telling us that there is a better way, that forgiveness is the way, that better way. And that means committing your life to Christ and being like God. I want to be a Christ follower that, that lives this life out, that lives this life of peace, but of forgiveness, of joy and walks that out. And so if you.
 (Natalie): And of courage.
 (Bryan): Yeah. And if, if this is something that's. That's really impacted you, this met even this podcast. And you like it, it means a lot when you share it. But you want to know more or you want to ask some questions, just you can follow us on Instagram or Facebook. If there's anything that we said here that you don't like, that's okay. Yeah, that's okay. We would love to have conversations. You can email us@implifiedmarriage gmail.com
 (Bryan): and have you heard us say so many times we believe that marriage can be reset.
 (Natalie): Refreshed, recharged and restored.
 (Bryan): Thanks so much for listening.
 (Natalie): Talk to you soon.
 (Bryan): It.